New question, do we really need jibs?

[Julian Swindell]

I think we do, but it was interesting yesterday. I was on a long, long run across Studland Bay, straight down a very gentle wind (I was doing about 2kts max.) I furled the jib, which annoys me on a run, and goosewinged the mizzen and main. I was very surprised that if I lashed the tiller, she held her course with hardly any input from me. As far as I could see, if she turned towards the main sail side, the main would push her back on course. If she turned towards the mizzen side, it had enough leverage around the centreboard to again push her back on course as well. I don't think it would work in a strong wind, but it was very relaxed in the sunshine on Tuesday. I sat back and admired it and almost ran up the beach.

A question for Bayraiders. Is it easy to goosewing a self tacking jib? I find it near impossible with a conventional jib, without a jib stick to hold it out.

[Simon Knight]

Julian,

I suspect we have jibs because racing boats have jibs.  I think that there are "better" cruising rigs.  I keep reviewing a photo of a Nigel Irons "Romilly"and wondering if a similar rig would work on a BR:  two unstayed masts, with the main mast/sail using a high peaked gaff and a fully battened main.  No standing rigging to maintain and get tangled when raising the mast.  Let the main sheet out and the sail feathers down wind and stays quiet.  Reefing is also simple.  The only down side is "how well does she sail to windward without the jib?".

The BR self taking jib does goose wing on its boom and it can be lashed out board if required but the down side is that the boom flattens the sail.

Best wishes

Simon

[Julian Swindell]

I was watching a Deben Lugger at the English Raid last week, storming along. I could keep ahead of him upwind, but he got the better of me down wind. Big balanced lug mainsail and a small lug mizzen on unstayed masts. I was impressed by how big a sail he could keep up in a strong wind, but as you say, he could spill it almost completely. But he didn't have the option of jib and mizzen as a get-you-home-in-a-gale rig.

[Tony]

But he didn't have the option of jib and mizzen as a get-you-home-in-a-gale rig.

I think the Jib is just that on the production Deben Luggers...an option.

My pre-production prototype, "Wabi", (now a permanent resident on Paxos) sets a jib on a de-mountable bowsprit. Other differences are, to quote Alex Haig:
 “...She differs from the production Deben Luggers by having a heavier GRP hull with plywood sheaved internals/decks, a profiled dagger-board, larger mainsail and bermudan mizzen. She has large sea kindly decks, carbon fibre masts and a flying jib on a bowsprit. “
Deben Luggers can certainly carry their sails. Going to windward I don't feel the need to reef until F 5/6 after which I recommend starting the engine (In my case, a Mariner 3.3hp two stroker which will give her up to 6 knots dead against the wind - if you dont mind getting wet!) On a reach, the reefed main can have less area and is more controllable  than the jib so it only make sense to use the jib as an additional sail area in light winds rather than as the traditional "jib and mizzen get-you-home"  rig.

[Tony]

I forgot to mention that with the big ol' lug sail pulling like a carthorse you'd need a spinaker to get near "Wabi" on a down wind run!