Help/advice with Spinnaker rigging, launching/retrieving and sailing..

[Andy Dingle]

OK.. confession time! Since I got my Bayraider 20 back in 2009 I have never flown my spinnaker.
Now, I know the wind has rarely dropped below 35 knots since then, neither has it stopped raining or latterly snowing, but the situation is beginning to embarrass me!

Whilst helping (hindering) Peter Cockerton with his plans of rigging a furling spinnaker on his BR my thoughts kept going back to my own neglected spinnaker, safely tucked away in my garage.
After comments from 'er in doors that sailing is 'boring' and 'why can't we have one of those' as she points to a fleet of 29ers in splendid full flight, brightly coloured spinnakers straining and fit young kids hanging on for dear life.. It's time to do something about my inexperience.
I originally ordered the spinnaker kit and fittings suspecting that this day would eventually come and I am glad I did.

Now, my own BR is the wood EP model with a beautifully made spinnaker launching bag built into the starboard side of my lovely mahogany planked foredeck - which so far has only been used to store trailing halyards whilst sailing!

I write with my spinnaker draped over my sitting room as I study the tack, clew, head and launch/retrieval system. To be honest I have little or no clue on what I am doing with it. The manual seems to be less than completely informative and appears to be geared towards the GRP BR. So am turning to the wealth of information out there in Swallow Boat world for help.

I would be very grateful for any advice on rigging, launching/retrieving and sailing with the beast on my particular boat. Particulary the rigging of the retrieval system through the rings and webbing strops on the rear of the spin?
I have all the bits (I think) CF pole (in two parts) blocks and lots of string.
I am sure there must be other owners in the same predicament as me and if anyone with sufficient knowledge could help us all out I would be very grateful?

Maybe an article to supplement the manual and go into the Association Library?


Regards


Andy and a partially naked BR20 'Psalter'

[Peteri]

I have the BRe with an asymmetric so it may be different but it is a pain that there's no clear diagram or photo's.  The best thing is to rig it when on dry land without much wind.  Then practice pulling it from one side to the other, that way you will realise if one of your ropes is of insufficient length, far less embarrassing on dry land.  You'll also be able to see that all the rigging is outside of everything else, again far more fixable when you can jump out and re rig, not quite so easy at sea.
Good luck, it certainly makes sailing more fun.

[Graham W]

I couldn't agree more about first rigging the beast on dry land in very light winds and preferably somewhere that will not attract an audience. It sounds like my setup is quite different to yours so all I can do is wish you good luck!

[Andy Dingle]

Thanks for the replies so far.

Seems I'm going to have to experiment with it. If we get some light winds tomorrow I'm going to have a go at launching it on my drive.
The consensus of opinion so far is to use a snuffer/sock system which does seem quite sensible and fairly simple, has anyone else tried this system?

I think the tack will also need to be adjustable ie lengthening it as you go further downwind and vice versa? What merits are there in  having such a long 'bow sprit' or could it be launched - with an adjustable tack - directly off the bow forward of the jib furler?

I'll have a play and see what I can sort out..
 

By the way Graham - I have today rigged a 'double' topping lift which I'll try out this weekend. Looks a good idea though. Thanks

[Rob Johnstone]

I have used a snuffer with a cruising chute on a Moody 35. It made bringing the sail down quite easy without depowering the sail. Provided the helmsman kept the boat steady, the man at the mast could pull the down the snuffer over the sail and slowly deflate it. Once fully down, the whole lot could be lowered to the deck, folded up and put away. We discovered by bitter experience that the snuffer wouldn't work when we had mismanaged the sail into an hour glass......

[Graham W]

I have two pieces of equipment that I have never managed to get to work properly on my BR20 - one is a Scullmatix sculling oar installation on the stern and the other is a spinnaker snuffer, which always seemed to get stuck or in a tangle whenever I used it (which I no longer do).  I think an adjustable tack line is the answer to unmanageable spinnaker misery - it makes it much easier to set the spinnaker flying and also to depower it prior to bringing it back on board without the sail falling into the water.  When this line is not in use, the tack end can be let go far enough to be brought aft and clipped on to a shroud.  I have mine feeding through the middle of the spinnaker pole to a clamcleat on top of the centreboard case.

One of these days, I am going to try an environmentally-unfriendly spinnaker tip that I read about somewhere or other: take a small bucket from which the bottom has been carefully removed, so that there are no sharp edges; stretch several long thin rubber bands over and around the bucket; feed the spinnaker through the middle of said bucket, rolling off a rubber band onto the sail every now and then and removing the bucket when finished.  You then have a long thin spinnaker sausage that can be hoisted without filling with wind.  As soon as the head and tack are suitably tensioned, pull hard on the lee spinnaker sheet and the rubber bands should all break and the spinnaker will unfurl. The broken rubber bands presumably fall into the sea, where they are ready to choke an unsuspecting mackerel.

[Andy Dingle]

Well, I've got my spinnaker bagged nicely in its launching bag on my foredeck. I've surmised that the launching halyard should go up to the hounds back down into the cockpit, under the foredeck into the launching bag, fed through the tabbed rings and finally secured to the central tab on the inside of my spinnaker. Theoretically (!) I can now hoist it and it should pull out of the bag, and retrieve it all back into the bag by pulling one way or t'other on the halyhard. Sheets from clew fed outside of everything and back to the rowlocks port and starboard and fed through the blocks on soft shackles (I like the idea of ratchet blocks Graham).

I agree that an adjustable tack is necessary and I stood staring at my extended pole pondering how best to do this, I did think it would be ideal to feed it through the spinnaker pole and am glad to see this has already been done, my spinnaker pole is stopped with a wooden bung at the end with just a ring screwed into it - how did you get yours through the pole Graham? Did you drill a hole further up the pole? If so does this weaken the carbon fibre? In the meantime I intend just to feed it over the foredeck, fitting a block on the end of the spinnaker pole.

I've fitted my bobstay and tensioned it so that the pole shouldn't flex upwards too much - (is that right?) so all now looks fine and dandy and in theory should work! Unfortunately it's been blowing 5's gusting 6's all day so a trial is going to have to wait.



Based on your feedback I may bin the snuffer idea!
I've got a posty who does that too Graham, chucks his used rubber bands all over the place!


Andy

[Graham W]

I agree that an adjustable tack is necessary and I stood staring at my extended pole pondering how best to do this, I did think it would be ideal to feed it through the spinnaker pole and am glad to see this has already been done, my spinnaker pole is stopped with a wooden bung at the end with just a ring screwed into it - how did you get yours through the pole Graham? Did you drill a hole further up the pole? If so does this weaken the carbon fibre?

I've fitted my bobstay and tensioned it so that the pole shouldn't flex upwards too much - (is that right?) so all now looks fine and dandy and in theory should work!

Andy,

I removed the existing wooden bung and replaced it with a new one with a deck bush installed through the middle.  You may find that your carbon pole has foam inserts which need to be drilled through or removed.

For the bobstay, I screwed a small lacing eye lengthways on top of the pole, so that the bobstay could be looped (or spliced) through it, pulling down from around the top.  And yes, the pole needs to be tensioned downwards with the bobstay.  Some people say that it should be slightly over-tensioned.

[Colin Morley]

Please could someone who knows about spinnakers on the BR20 please give me (and others) a description and diagram of all the rigging needed to set up a spinnaker. I have a BR20 that has no spinnaker rig at all. I dont have a spinnaker halyard and I see that this is often referred to for a forestay, extra headsail etc. So how is the halyard attached top and bottom? How do you ensure it does not get caught up when the jib is furled? where do you keep the spinnaker and how do you launch it? Where are the sheets attached? Do you have separate sheets or a continuous loop?

When this is described this could be in the library because it is not set out in the handbook.

Many thanks

I suggest

[Graham W]

Colin,

Have you seen page 18 of this version of the manual? http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/?page_id=251. Page 12 shows the standard fiddle block at the masthead for those with spinnakers installed by the yard. The spinnaker halyard (attached to the head of the spinnaker) goes through the lower sheave of this (somewhat illogically) and then down to a horn cleat on the starboard side of the mast, near the tabernacle.

That's the standard set-up but if starting from scratch, I would specify a double (side by side) block at the masthead, a separate fixed bobstay with adjustable tack line, plus auto ratchet blocks (Andrew Denman picture below) instead of standard blocks for the sheets.

[Colin Morley]

Thanks Graham.

Please can I ask for some clarification.
1. I thought there was a problem with double sided blocks, if both sheaves were not under similar pressure it would twist. Is that a real problem?
2. I am not sure what you mean by a separate bobstay. Is this a separate forestay? If so how to you stop it getting tangled up when the jib is furling?
3. What is an adjustable tack line? I cant even imagine what that is?

Many many thanks. Trying to get the boat set up now the sun is shining

[Graham W]

1. I thought there was a problem with double sided blocks, if both sheaves were not under similar pressure it would twist. Is that a real problem?

I haven't noticed this with my double block.  However, I use two blocks (a double on top and a single down below) at the head of the jib, to give myself some mechanical advantage when raising and lowering the mast.  The top block has a central becket (attachment point) which takes most of the strain from the jib head end of the halyard and probably explains why twist isn't a problem on my rig.  See photo below.

2. I am not sure what you mean by a separate bobstay. Is this a separate forestay? If so how to you stop it getting tangled up when the jib is furling?
3. What is an adjustable tack line? I cant even imagine what that is?

A bobstay is the line that stops the spinnaker pole from bending upwards under tension from the spinnaker. The tack line pulls in the opposite direction and restrains the front corner (tack) of the spinnaker - see the attached sketches.  I have used separate colours for separate pieces of string.  On the standard version, the combined bobstay/tack line is only fixed to the boat at the towing eye near the waterline and passes through a hole or eye in the spinnaker pole up to the spinnaker tack. It can only be tensioned by extending the pole out of its tube, as stated in the boat manual. 

In the alternative version, the bobstay is fixed to both the towing eye and the end of the spinnaker pole; the tack line is independent of this and can be brought back inside the boat where it can be separately tensioned. The tack line can be let go when bringing the spinnaker back inboard - this means that the sail shoots up into the air before retrieval instead of falling down into the water, which is what tended to happen with my standard version.  It also provides a second way of depowering the spinnaker in a squall (in addition to letting go the sheets).  With a bit of ingenuity, the adjustable tack line can be fed through the middle of the spinnaker pole to the cockpit where it is closer to hand.

[Colin Morley]

Thank you very much Graham. This has been very helpful. When I saw your pictures I "remembered" what a bobstay is. I have flown spinnakers on dinghys and yachts so have some experience of them but never had a boat with a bobstay. I really enjoy my BR20 without a spinnaker but the time has now come to think about fixing one - mainly to keep the younger members of the crew happy.

One comment on the double topping lift. Today I have been converting my single topping lift to a double one. These were the things I found that might be of use to others:
1) I bought 15m of line thinking it would be more than enough. In fact it is only just enough.
2) I put the topping lift on the boom and then placed the yard into it only to find, when I pulled up the yard, that the topping lift was twisted. So make sure the two lines are on the right sides - ah so many things to think about!
3) When I came to stow the combined gaff and boom I unclipped the topping lift from the boom then I found a problem - I could only take the topping lift off by either taking it right to the end of the yard or freeing the yard and moving it well onto the foredeck. If the topping lift is to be taken over the peak of the yard it needs to be about 3 m longer.

[Michael Rogers]

Colin's comments about the topping lift had me smiling wryly, and also sympathetically, because I had, and have, similar 'problems' with the double topping lift on Cavatina: albeit worth living with and overcoming because the double TL is such an improvement for sailing and, with my JR, reefing. Perhaps my setup is different in that the TL passes under the boom about 40 cm inboard from the clew in order to contain the bundle of sail plus batten(s) when reefing. Difficult to describe and I don't know whether Colin and others can follow, but when unstepping I have to lift the mast out and lower the heel towards the stern in such a way that it passes between the two lifts; and ditto when stepping. Otherwise, as Colin says, the TL is twisted and for me it's a major exercise to sort it out. Practice makes perfect - I hope.

I also strongly identified with Colin's '15 metres is just enough' experience. Having completely re-rigged one boat and rigged another from scratch, I quickly discovered that estimating the needed length of a rope a metre too short probably makes the whole thing useless, which becomes expensive. So one errs on the generous side, which is fine but can add up cost-wise as well, particularly for things like halyards and sheets. I now have a whole boxful of 2 - 3 metre lengths of allsortsofrope which I still hope may somehow, someday be just what I need for some as yet unidentified domestic/gardening/equine use (even my wife's gee-gee hasn't been much help in this regard). It's a sort of maritime Murphy's Law, which I think should have an appropriate name, but I can't think of one. Answers on a postcard.....?

Perhaps Tony can help. He likes string.

Michael  (Cavatina)

[Peter Cockerton]

Tried out the spinnaker out on my BR20 at Rutland this weekend in light winds and it worked fine. Thanks to Brian Robertson post on continuous line furlers thats what i put on my boat. I did use the cheaper RWO furler drum and made up some of my own blocks for the drum line but in those conditions it furled reasonably quickly if not evenly but with careful clew line control i think that could be improved on.

Not wishing to air my stupidity but i had to make my own blocks because i spliced my furl line without thinking of the blocks i would need in circuit so don,t make that mistake.

Peter