London Boat Show

[Graham W]

I overcame my prejudices about the Excel venue and went to the London Boat Show yesterday. 2014 is supposed to be the year when we finally overcome our fears about the financial future (until the next unexpected shock) and get out our wallets. There was certainly a marked difference between this year's show and two years ago. More people, more retail stands and more boat orders, especially at the Swallow Boats stand.  The latter had a BC23 and BRe on display and was attracting lots of attention from people taking their shoes off and getting a feel for the cabins.  I overheard one lady talking about the provision for heads in the cabin, which surely demonstrates serious intent?

Anyway, despite all the AWB's at the bling end of the hall, the show was interesting with a good selection of small and/or historical boats on display, the cablecar from the O2 to the other side of the Thames was a novel way of getting there and today is the last day to visit.

[Andy Dingle]

I too visited the Show this year. I agree, although it was pretty quiet when I went on Tuesday the atmosphere seemed more positive and dare I say, even more relaxed and friendly.. not quite the same as the old Earls Court days, when a visit to 'the' boat show was something of a pilgrimage but pleasant none the less.

I think I demonstrated my serious intent by getting out my wallet and coming home with an order for a  brand spanking new shiny Baycruiser 23‬ safely lodged with a gleeful Matt! Before driving home to try and explain myself to 'er indoors...

You all may get to see her at the Southampton Boat Show after Matt intimated she would be ready by then and could he use it as the exhibition  boat... Shoes off please chaps ..


Andy

Bayraider 20 No 12 'Psalter'
BayCruiser 23 No ?? 'Druid' (At the moment..)

[david]

Congratulations Andy.  good winds and smooth seas.

David

[Julian Swindell]

Congratulations on the Baycruiser, she won't disappoint. But did you pin Matt down as to exactly which Southampton boat show...

[Rob Johnstone]

Just recovered from three days at the LBS. How Matt manages to keep smiling after a week of it, I don't know.*

Sunday was very busy - both boats always seemed to have someone in  the cockpit or cabin.

Knock down at the end of the show was pretty quick, I think Matt should have been away by 8pm

*Well, I suppose I do ---- well done Andy, I see I didn't put you off!

Rob J

[Andy Dingle]

Thanks all... and thanks for all the advice ..  It's been been really useful.
I've got over the euphoric stage and now the grim financial reality is sinking in!

After investigating and seriously considering a fleet of other boats I kept coming back to the Baycruiser ..  all boats have to be a compromise, but with the BC23 I think I have got most of my 'boxes ticked' as they say these days. Sailing performance being paramount.

I'll no doubt be coming back to you all for help and your opinions on all the bits and pieces I want..

Julian.. we are sort of hoping it will be ready for Soton this year -pinkies crossed.. . but if not it may well be the London show next year! For your info, and thanks,  I have taken on board you're idea of a bulkhead behind the 'galley' area - courtesy of Peter Taylor! Seems a sensible and useful addition - to be honest I wasn't overly happy with the 23's interior but as I say it's all a compromise. If you , or others, have any other hints and tips on making it a more usable space then they would be very much appreciated.

I am anxious to try and get everything right from the offset. I've already got Laura excited about the colour ..  a deep maroon red with cream topside and under water line with full permateak on deck, probably beige spray hood and sail cover... if there are any comments about that then please let me know as the colour is still in the debating stage with 'er indoors...

I will probably start another thread at some stage with updates, I am (probably) going for a slight change in the standard sail plan with a reefing (yes reefing, not just furling) Genoa up front .. Thoughts on that too would be appreciated especially from other Baycruiser owners.  (Thanks already to Rob and Peter T for their input on this).

Regards and all comments, good or bad are very welcome !


Andy

[Clem Freeman]

Andy,

Congratulations, sounds very similar to the colour scheme on my storm 17. I went on VIP Wednesday and nearly got mown down by Princess Anne, she doesn't hang about! Not sure how she got to see much. On a sad note from talking to Matt it seems the kit side of the business is just about finished, probably due to the success of the newer boats.

Clem

[Tony]

Ooh! A shiney new BC23. Spot-on choice, Andy.
Will you have her in time for the next Semaine du Golfe?
You could be Mother Ship for us lesser mortals and carry all the liquid ballast! Come to think of it, as its going to be a custom build (I like the reefing foresail idea, by the way. She'll fly with a big Genoa!) you could dedicate one of the water ballast tanks to the storage of Chablis to help wash down all the free Oysters?

"Druid"? A good name with a worthy ancestry.

[Andy Dingle]

Sincerely hoping she will be ready by then Tony - if she did go I would use her to smuggle back tank fulls of that Bretton Cidre.. forget your Chablis!
Though I think we will be doing it in Peter's 'JoyBells' next year..

Yes, very excited about the project, there has certainly been a few groans of relief as people realise they are not going to be bored rigid with me endlessly discussing the merits or otherwise of just about every small boat ever designed.
Screams of 'For @>?*&? 's sake  ..  just make your mind up'!! As everyone disappears in the direction of the bar..
Just been in communication with the designer of the 'Aero Foil Luff Spar' (google it) which will hopefully enable me to fly a genny and reef it when the cider starts to splash from the glass. Tells me that it certainly will be possible and Matt already has a sample to experiment with.

'Druid'? Yes, the connection is my surname 'Dingle'  small woods, groves and people who reside in them ..  you get the idea, associated with my Cornish roots. But should it be 'Druidess' .. I think we all agree that boats are female, despite Lloyds of London trying to tell us otherwise! What do you think?


Andy

[Michael Rogers]

On Clem's report (which we presumably take as 'unattributed' at this stage), the demise of the kit-build side of SwallowBoats would be very sad - speaking as one who has done two. The personal sense of achievement ('I did that') is up there with anything else creative I've done in the last 70 odd years, particularly as it continues in the ongoing sailing partnership with what I've created. I owe Nick and Matt a huge amount.

I'm also sad that such a step would probably be the end of the Trouper design which, as a few of you will have gathered, I am keen on (understatement of the week?), and which seems to have slipped between a few historical/economic stools. Matt tells me that it is not a financial go-er for them to build, and although he is giving consideration to a GRP version, it wouldn't surprise me if that bit of the market was overloaded already - with a whole lot of relatively inferior dinghies, but there you go. (And GRP would lose the outstanding light weight advantage of epoxy-ply.) I understand all of that, and Matt has to earn a living.

Hey-ho, at least I've got my own dreamboat to sail towards the gates of heaven. I will just have to stop 'selling' the Trouper, otherwise Matt will be fending off disappointed potential customers.

Michael        (proudly) Trouper 12 'Cavatina'

[Julian Swindell]

Andy
I would be interested in knowing what you think about the aero luff spar. I had a look at one on a Cornish Shrimper at the Southampton show and have toyed with the idea on my BC20. It looked very neat, but it is a question if it can really hold a reef the sail in a strong blow, or if it is really just used as a neater furling system.

[Rob Johnstone]

The aero luff sounds really interesting. Talking with Matt, it seems that it should be possible to fit one off the boats head and keep the use of the jib. You'd then fly a lightish weight "Genica" from the aero luff for use in broad reach and downwind conditions. MAtt says he's going to experiment. If the idea works it will make  a great difference to down wind sailing! And you don't need a bowsprit

I was also talking with Nick about the possibility of using the same arrangement on a Genikca as used by the Spitfire design. It uses one of the non twisting ropes fitted fitted with a series of small balls to control the furl the headsail from the top......

[Andy Dingle]

Julian.

You are quite right, I understand the Cornish Shrimper and Adventure can also use the aero luff spar to fly a genoa - the manufacturer mentioned that 'other' makers apart from Swallow Boats have been investigating the use of the spar - so am assuming that is Cornish Crabbers.
Their website mentions using it in strong winds. I agree that my main concern is it 'blowing out' in a strong wind with disastrous results. I did read that they employ some kind of special 'clamp' to prevent this? I will want reassurances about this and then decide whether or not to have it after I've had a trial sail - in strong winds if I can. I certainly will let you know.


Rob.

I discussed that idea with Matt, and am quite taken on it.
I think (probably wrongly) that this is not a new idea and is called a 'slutter rig' - this would mean an additional forestay though, but doesn't the 23 have a 'main' forestay to hold the mast up and an and an inner stay for the jib  anyway?
Would there be enough room between the two stays for the furling gear and sail?.. Do you envisage using it as purely a downwind/reaching sail, if so to gybe would it mean furling it up, then letting it go again after gybing?
Not sure what you mean by the Spitfire design?  I thought a spitfire sail was some kind of storm jib?

Gosh this is getting complicated!

[Tony]

Hi, Andy.
What's in a name, Mr Dingle? My surname comes from a bit of bog in Somerset (Well, it IS an SSSI. There's class for you, a bog with interesting bugs!)
Anyway, "Druid" is better than most, as boat names go - and won't cost too much to be picked out in gold leaf, either. (Just watch what you do with the Mistletoe.)
The earliest HMS Druid was a 1776 16 gun brig and the most modern I could find, a 1911 Destroyer (Acheron Class) the First War battle flag of which resides in a Welsh museum.
As to it being a gender-specific name, who cares.....and who's to say there were no female druids before the Romans butchered them all? There were plenty at Glastonbury last time I looked!

[Rob Johnstone]

Andy
gosh. so much to talk about..

Julian.

You are quite right, I understand the Cornish Shrimper and Adventure can also use the aero luff spar to fly a genoa - the manufacturer mentioned that 'other' makers apart from Swallow Boats have been investigating the use of the spar - so am assuming that is Cornish Crabbers.
Their website mentions using it in strong winds. I agree that my main concern is it 'blowing out' in a strong wind with disastrous results. I did read that they employ some kind of special 'clamp' to prevent this? I will want reassurances about this and then decide whether or not to have it after I've had a trial sail - in strong winds if I can. I certainly will let you know.


Rob.

I discussed that idea with Matt, and am quite taken on it.
I think (probably wrongly) that this is not a new idea and is called a 'slutter rig' - this would mean an additional forestay though, but doesn't the 23 have a 'main' forestay to hold the mast up and an and an inner stay for the jib  anyway?
Would there be enough room between the two stays for the furling gear and sail?.. Do you envisage using it as purely a downwind/reaching sail, if so to gybe would it mean furling it up, then letting it go again after gybing?
Not sure what you mean by the Spitfire design?  I thought a spitfire sail was some kind of storm jib?

Gosh this is getting complicated!

The Spitfire I referred to is an 18 foot dinghy made by North Quay Marine(http://www.northquaymarine.co.uk/resources/Spitfire-18-Specification.pdf)
The BC23 has a fore stay that is shackled to the hounds on the mast and to the point of the forepeak (heaven knwos what the technical term for that is), so it's very strong. However, when the jib is hoisted (eg all the time you are sailing), it's the wire in the leading edge of the jib that takes the strain and the forestay sags quite a bit.
I think the BC needs a larger, light weight sail for running down wind (and in fact for sailing when the wind is abaft the beam).

Nick and I were wondering if you could replace the forestay with the "non twisting" piece of rope that runs up the inside of assymetric used by the Spitfire (quote 'The optional asymmetric head sail adds a new dimension to the sailing experience. It is operated on a “topdown”
furler so is easily deployed and recovered from within
the cockpit.'). The furling mechanism for this is operated by a continuous loop with the furling drum at the bottom of the non twisting rope. It looks to me as if there would be room for this arrangement as well as the existing roller furling of the jib in the bow of the BC 23.

I discussed it with Matt earlier this week. His concern is that it will weaken the rig, because there no longer is the steel cable of the forestay and he probably has a point, which is why his preferred option is the aero luff.

I'll be very interested in the results of the tests at "the shed" (or even in the estuary!).


Gosh, how can we transfer all this rig discussion to a new thread - anyone know?


Rob J