Code Zero...development or what?

[David Hudson]

I read with interest Guy Rossey and others' pieces on Code Zero genackers...

Always looking for extra grunt, is Code Zero the way to go? Pulling strings and keeping the boat flat Is not a problem and a massive area for scary colours is attractive but are my feet firmly on the water? And will the BrE's carbon fibre mast take it?

"This is the silly season after all".

[Jonathan Stuart]

David,

I think this is definitely worth investigation. I thought I'd get an asymmetric after a couple of seasons of sailing my BRe but then I found the downwind performance is fine - OK, might not be as comparatively outstanding as other points of sail but the heavily roached sail, etc, does well downwind and I've never felt the boat lacking and I'm not looking for maximum performance.

I've come to the conclusion that if I added sail area it would be to handle lighter wind conditions and hence would want something that is effective on as wide a range of points of sail as possible. That brought me to think about a Code 0 last year. I've not done anything about it but have thought about it a lot and I don't see why it wouldn't work so I don't think it's a "silly season|" suggestion!

My hesitation is whether the extra flexibility I will enjoy on the water is worth the cost and additional rigging, etc, that will get in the way and add to setup times, etc. I'm still undecided on that and a lack of this being a significant problem has led to inaction. But I keep thinking I might explore the feasibility and cost. I also hadn't seen Guy Rossey's posts and that makes for interesting reading...

Jonathan

[Peter Cockerton]

David, Jonathon

My BR20 in light winds is sluggish, flying the asymmetric on a run and possibly round to a beam reach certainly gets the boat moving but with my experience i only feel comfortable using this sail when I'm not sailing solo.

I used the spinnaker pole with an RWO continuous furler. Furling was reasonably successful but due to the shape of the AS and it having no wire or rope in the luff the sail would not furl tightly at the top of the sail, the wind soon caught the unfurled section and caused the sail to flog.

The furling kit that will do the job is a top down furler but they are around £500, so not an option.

To enhance the boats performance in light winds and when I'm solo i bought a code zero (lightweight genacker) as you quite rightly described it. I have only used it once since the purchase (November last year) as the conditions at Rutland have been too strong since on my visits. The code zero is again flown from the spinnaker pole with an RWO continuous furler on the tack. The code zero has a rope sewn into the luff. We used the sail for over 4 hours of sailing and tried furling several times when on different point of sail, the results so far are very encouraging,  with the light winds we had on that day the difference in boat speed when on a broad reach for example was half a knot with the standard jib set and up to 3.5 knots with the jib furled and the code zero set. As Jonathon pointed out the standard sail set is excellent, but in light winds the self tacking jib is a little on the small side and without a separate halyard on the end of the jib boom to allow you to ease the clew outhall and put some belly in the jib it doesn't provide a lot of power.

With the continuous furler lines for the code zero fed back well in to the cockpit i can furl and unfurl the sail very easily on my own on all points of sail when the code zero can be used. As the BR20 rig was designed for the larger AS i have no concerns flying the code zero  from the pole.

So in my opinion well worth the £300 for the sail and the £50 for the RWO continious furler.

Peter Cockerton

[David Hudson]

My main reason for hesitation relates to the suitability of the carbon mast with no spreaders.

A genacker flown from just above the hounds is one thing. A Code Zero flown from the masthead may require rigging mods which would bring in an unwelcome cost consideration.

[Peter Cockerton]

David

A question to Matt is the way forward then on the rig suitability for a code zero then, trust other input was useful.

Peter Cockerton

[Rob Johnstone]

Not sure what's being flown on this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4AY49ChHN4&sns=em

Sorry, you've to copy and paste the url into you tube.

Apparently, Matt is actively (?) pursing this as an option. It flies from a fitting about 18 inches above the head of the forestay.

[David Hudson]

Having spoken with Matt, I'm going to suck on a genacker this coming season.

Talking with Richard Lovering of Hydes, he suggested an aspect ratio mod to the current design. I will update this thread as I progress.

I have just watched the Utube video, the Swallows certainly are "smokin" under mizen sail only!

[Graham W]

It flies from a fitting about 18 inches above the head of the forestay.

Or in the case of those of us with gunter rig, if you need clearance for a furler top swivel, the sail can be flown from a halyard crane projecting forward from the top of the main mast.

[David Hudson]

The gunter rig format is a different matter.

Hyde built me a genacker for my gunter rig Cape Cutter. This was based on their experience with Mike Brooke; round England sailor and ex FD crew with Rodney Pattison. There were "tuts" from the the Class secretary but it worked.

Let's be dangerous!

[Peter Taylor]

SB are certainly doing some good video work now - I notice a few have been added to their web site! Viewing the Chichester Harbour video I notice that, at least on the BRe, the asymmetric appears to be hoisted right up to the mast and with the  tack close to the boom, but it still has a lot of curvature in the luff.  The bowsprit on my BC20 allows me to get the luff more or less straight when needed (photo attached), allowing me to carry the sail on a broad to close reach (the only problem then being the extra speed brings the relative wind more ahead and I have to bear away to keep carrying the sail!).  In fact, compared to the video my BC20 asymmetric seems flatter cut, but that might just be the wind direction during filming.

That would suggest that a genoa/genacker wouldn't be so much of an advantage. However the problem I have with the asymmetric is that, launching it (1960's dinghy style!) from a bag in the cockpit, having flown it once, finding time to get it neatly packed ready to fly again can be a problem (I'm usually single handed).  Usually it remains as an unholy mess inside the cabin. Having a roller furled genacker would definitely be a neat solution so I'll be following this thread with interest!

Peter

[Jonathan Stuart]

Having thought about this for some time, this conversation has spurred me in to action. I spoke to Matt yesterday and he's looking in to this (as David also said). Matt's only concern is whether the BRe's carbon mast's strength, and without spreaders, is sufficient to handle the loads caused by using such a sail more upwind, etc, compared to the asymmetric. He's looking in to this.

[Jonathan Stuart]

Here is Matt's feedback re a C0 for the BRe:

"Having thought about it some more I do not [Matt's highlighting] think I can recommend another upwind sail on the BRe. I am too worried about the mast loading am afraid. The existing Asym is great for up to about 90 degrees to the wind - I mean you might have thought it only a downwind sail but its pretty good for a range of angles. it is always best to furl the jib though."

Interesting. I assume that at low winds/loads a C0 would be fine, i.e. it will create no more load than the standard jib in stronger winds, but that Matt's concern is that skippers won't furl the C0 soon enough, etc, and/or it is not realistic for his to advise just how much wind is safe for a C0 on the BRe. I've asked Matt the question and will post his reply here but that's just a point of clarification for interest and the advice remains the same.

[David Hudson]

This confirms my conversation with Matt. I must admit I do like playing around with running backstays though!

[Peter Taylor]

Given Matt's feedback I'm now wondering about using a top-down furler with my asymmetric. I must admit I didn't know of them until Peter C's post. I use the sail quite a lot so think I can justify the cost provided the thing works. Has anyone any experience with one on a SB (or elsewhere)?  They look to make sail handling easy but I'm worried that if (when) something goes wrong it will not be possible to get the sail de-powered and dropped into the cockpit as I can with the present loose tack arrangement. I also wonder if the head board on my Hyde Asym is too stiff for the furler.

Peter

[Graham W]

Peter,

I have a Karver top-down furler that I have tried to use with the standard asymmetric, the head flown from a halyard crane (to stop it fouling the jib) and the tack from the end of my plank bowsprit.  More details of the hardware can be found here http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,899.msg5815.html#msg5815

It would work well if it was not for the reinforcing patch or head board in the spinnaker that you mention.  This produces a bat wing shape when furled that still fouls the jib despite the halyard crane.  The answer is a spinnaker with reinforcements made from several pieces of canvas webbing that radiate vertically down from the spinnaker head, allowing a neat furl.  More here http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,899.msg5813.html#msg5813

Watch this space.