Poole Harbour

[Ged]

Hi All
I'm very keen to get my new Storm 17 on the sea (not this weekend though!!!) and Poole Harbour looks like a perfect place.

I don't have a lot of Coastal sailing experience and was wondering if any of the Poole regulars could give me some tips and pointers as to where and when to launch, where to sail and NOT to sail and anything else that would be helpful for me to know. 
I had a couple of hours sailing in the Harbour with an instructor earlier this year but I don't feel I have enough knowledge / experience / confidence just to rock up and launch my boat into the briny.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Ged

[Woodlark]

Ditto for my recently acquired BRe and any other places in the South of England and Wales and any updates/additions  to the existing Waterside Accommodation Library listed elsewhere on this site.

[garethrow]

A good safe week's sailing can be had on the Cleddau / Haven in Pembrokeshire at the Seafair Haven event next June. Ideal for those, like me of a cautious disposition, as the waters are sheltered on all sides and they provide rescue boat service through the week. See details under events thread.

Regards

Gareth Rowlands
Gwennol Teifi S17

[Michael Rogers]

Hello, Ged and Ron: welcome.

I have had the past season sailing from Studland (and actually sailed quite a lot in Poole Harbour as a lad), so know the area a bit. My 12ft Trouper is in the NT boat park at Knowl Beach, where there is a boat length limit of 17ft (I think), so a Storm 17 would pass; I don't think a BRe would. There's normally quite a waiting list, although I got lucky with that. I sail into Poole Harbour from Studland when I can.

I'm not really the person to advise about launching boats of your sizes in Poole Harbour. I wonder whether Julian might help with that, if he can be persuaded to put down his paint brush for a bit (he's finishing off a lovely Oughtred dinghy he has just built). I can make a few general comments in case they help. I'm assuming your comments about little experience aren't just modesty on your part?!

There are some largish stretches of water for fine sailing in Poole Harbour, north, south and west of Brownsea Island and towards the Wareham channel. Outside Poole, Studland Bay itself is a big stretch, ideal for getting to know your boat, and with even wider scope round into Swanage Bay and beyond, and along past Bournemouth.

Although the tidal range is only about a metre, an awful lot of water has to get in and out of Poole Harbour through the narrows at Sandbanks; especially the ebb because of the 'two high tides' phenomenon (discussed recently elsewhere on the Forum, can't remember exactly where) which means that the final ebb happens quite quickly. So areas to be cautious about (until you're confident, and even then) are those inside and outside the chain ferry. Inside, several tidal flows meet at different angles which produce some really interesting wave and current situations. There are also quite strong currents round the east end of Brownsea Island. Outside, there is a fairly 'straight in and out' tidal stream which can be several knots.

It is grand sailing territory. I'll keep a good lookout for you! My dinghy is junk rigged, so fairly distinctive. I wish you really enjoyable sailing.

Michael    (Trouper 12 'Cavatina')

[Ged]

Hi Gareth
I looked at Seafair Haven it looks like a great event and I'll definitely do it at some stage but next year I'm already taking part in Sail Caledonia and then I've got a trip planned to Falmouth later in the month so unless I'm prepared to lose my wife and my business I think it probably best not go this time round!

[Ged]

Hi Michael
Thanks for the comprehensive reply.
I hired a catamaran from the folks on Studland beach in the summer and had an excellent afternoon charging about the bay, it's a beautiful spot. 
Is it possible to launch a boat from a trailer attached to a car or do you have to go across the sand?

My sailing on the sea consists of a few different weeks away with the Wanderer association sailing from Plymouth, Falmouth, and a couple of weeks in Chichester harbour but always as part of an organised group with more experienced folks to lead the way, so I'm not clueless but far from a salty sea dog!

I have put in a lot of hours on inland waters though, and my boat handling skills are coming along.

I went to look at a Trouper 12 a couple of years ago but it had not been very well built and I thought the owner was asking a lot of money for it, it looks like it should a great little boat though.

[Michael Rogers]

Hello again, Ged

I've never thought or enquired about launching from a trailer behind a car at Studland because it's never been relevant for me personally. I haven't seen it done during this past season, but the layout would make it feasible. There are one or two boats as big as a Storm 17 in the park (I'm not counting the 20 or so cats). I've been down one (whole) day a week, usually midweek. There's no going across sand involved, except for a narrow strip of sand and v shallow water beyond the slipway when the tide is right out. Boats go across the park (from my spot that's about 80 yards), on completely firm and hard ground, to the top of the slipway, with no way of getting a boat into the water except down the slip, which is short but quite steep. I guess you'd need 3 or 4 people to get a Storm 17 down into the water and especially out again if you couldn't use a car.

I can launch on my own, and retrieve solo if I have to, although there have nearly always been at least a few folk around to give a hand up the slip, and everyone is very helpful. My Trouper is very light.

I heard talk of the slipway being rebuilt, presumably during the winter. Whether they would make it less steep I don't know. The present one is perfectly usable, and I guess the rebuild is one of those things you believe if/when it happens!

I think anyone can bring a boat and use the slip. I'm not sure whether the one-off launching fee varies with boat length. It's about £16-00 I think; and £70-00 for a week, though that's a calendar week, not a number of launches on days of your choosing over a longer period. It gets quite expensive if you're not a National Trust member because you have to pay for parking (it's free for NT members). The annual fee I pay (for 12 months) is about £360-00, which is an absolute snip and much cheaper than anything else I researched round Poole: but, as I said, there is a waiting list to be negotiated.

It sounds as if your sailing experience is building up and all very relevant, Ged. I know the S17 is a very sailable boat - Gareth didn't say but he has one. I'm sure you'll have lots of rewarding sailing in yours. And Sail Caledonia 1916 - I'm impressed! (I can't, my boat is too small.)

Michael

[Ged]

Thanks Michael
I think I'll have to take a trip out to have a reccy.
Have you done any there and back day sails from there?

[Michael Rogers]

I've made four or five voyages from Studland into Poole Harbour: three were circumnavigations of Brownsea Island, with landings for a lunch break. One was an attempt to get to Wareham and back: I got as far as just beyond Rockley. If wind and tide were both comme ca, I think it's feasible! I shall keep trying. Timing my return past the chain ferry, related to tides and factoring in wind direction, sometimes meant being back in Studland Bay sooner than otherwise, in which case I would investigate the moored yachts, chase those under sail, watch the state-of-the-art lifeboats on training exercises, and generally enjoy myself in the bay. It's a big area, about 1 1/2 x 2 miles - lots of room.

I made two voyages round Old Harry into Swanage Bay. On one, I got half way across the bay towards Peverill Point in squally conditions with a reef down, in a Nor'wester which swirled disconcertingly off the coast, and I decided discretion was the order of the day: reaching back was exhilarating. On the other, I got involved in a thunderstorm followed by a torrential downpour (rain hissing on the sea and a dead calm, the cliffs 200m away completely blotted out), and got absolutely soaked.

In general, winds during this past summer have been stronger than forecast, and gusty. On at least two occasions I confined myself to the bay because Cavatina needed two reefs, and even then was going like the proverbial train: conditions further out, in the main Swash Channel and towards Old Harry, could get very rough.

Such fun!! Roll on next summer. And there may be a few winter sailing opportunities in between.

[Julian Swindell]

Sorry not to comment earlier, life is just too busy now I'm not working etc. I love Poole Harbour. I keep my BC20 on a mooring at Parkstone Bay. The public slipway at Baiter is in the centre of Poole, more or less, and is very good except that it has a very shallow gradient and nowhere to tie up your boat if you are single handed and need to get the trailer locked up. I developed a technique with an anchor on a short rode, but inevitably I get my shorts wet. It is not an easy launch or recovery if there is a strong onshore wind. These days I tend to pay the marina to lift me in and out. I'm getting old!
The harbour is wonderful, especially for a shallow draft centre boarder. Big boats simply can't get into  many of the bays, and you can have them to yourself if you wish. The Wareham channel is lovely and very easy to go aground in. Its soft mud so if you get stuck, you are stuck. You can't push off and you really must not get out. Just wait for the tide.
The tides are very strange. A pronounced double tide at springs, and sometimes no tide at all for 48 hours at neaps. Very strong currents, especially around the entrance. Note what Michael has said about the chain ferry. Boats have been dragged underneath it by the ebb tide. But if you are sensible, you should be fine. Watch out for the cross channel ferries! They have to move surprisingly fast insid ethe harbour, and they cannot steer to avoid you. I have seen the harbour master lassoo small boats and yank them unceremoniously out of the way. If you see a large, fast,, flashy motor boat approaching you, assume he (it is always a he) doesn't know how to steer it, doesn't know you are there and doesn't care anyway. Unflashy motorboats are fine and often very attractive.
I would recommend Poole to anyone who hasn't sailed there.
You can launch your boat halfway up the Wareham river, but it is quite a long way from the open harbour.

[Ged]

That's brilliant, thanks so much.

Is there sailing to be done at all stages of tide if I launch from the Baiter slip?

[Julian Swindell]

There is somewhere to sail at any stage of the tide, but launching from Batter at the lowest point of a spring tide is not really possible. But you won't have to wait long for it to rise enough.

[Ged]

I spent the weekend in Poole checking out the launching spots, they both look great a very different feel to them both. 
Due to the 50mph winds and freezing conditions the harbour was pretty much empty, apart for a few very keen wind and kite surfers. 
From Studland I couldn't help but feel the Isle of Wight calling, it looks like it would make a fantastic sail, have you ever done it?

Michael, I spotted your boat tucked away safely in the corner.

Roll on some nicer weather.

Cheers

Ged

[Peter Taylor]

I know Julian has sailed from Poole to Yarmouth IoW (on more than one occasion I think).  Coming the other way I have sailed from Southampton to near Hengistbury Head whilst day sailing.  From there it would have been much shorter to continue to Poole rather than sail back to Southampton. Indeed I keep meaning to sail down and spend a day or two in Poole Harbour.

One of the reasons that I have hesitated so far is the need to have good conditions and a fair tide for going through Hurst Narrows and the western Solent on the return journey.  Sea conditions can get rough at Hurst even on a fair day if the wind is against the tide (or even sometimes merely at the turn of the tide).  However if planning such a trip the North Channel, close into Hurst Point, is a good choice being somewhat sheltered by the Shingles Bank.  The "Trap", a shingle bank projecting out near Hurst Castle, does not pose too much of a problem with regard to depth for our type of boat (oops yachts!) but can put up a very confused sea over it so is best avoided! Once in the western Solent going with a flood tide 8 or 9 kts over the ground is often possible.  Of course that implies that tacking against the tide results in getting nowhere!

For anyone thinking of sailing in the Solent/Isle of Wight area I recommend the books "Solent Hazards" and "Wight Hazards". For some time their titles put me off reading them (!) but they really are a good guide to coastal sailing in the area including tips on picking up back eddies as well as information on the things you might run into whilst so doing.

Sorry, I seem to have strayed away from Poole Harbour!
Peter

[Julian Swindell]

I've sailed to the Isle about half a dozen times. A couple of times I set off but turned back when I didn't like the look of the weather. The important thing is the current and wind direction, and the absolute thing is the tidal gate through Hurst Narrows. Don't even pretend that you can get through in anything below a power boat against that current, and it needs to be a powerful one. It isn't that you can't make progress, you can, very, very slowly. But if you make the slightest mistake or misjudgement, you are back where you were an hour before in seconds. I have forced my way through once, but realised afterwards that it would have taken me no longer if I had just anchored and waited for the tide to change.
Plan the trip using a tidal atlas. Figure out when the favourable tide ends at Hurst, and plan to be there an hour before if you can (I did it by 10 minutes once, which was a bit squeaky as it was blowing F6 straight into the Solent, so there was no way I could go back). I work on the basis that if there is a reasonable breeze, I can average 3kts, which makes it about four hours or so, Poole entrance to Hurst. Then add on the benefit of a favourable current, which may save you up to an hour of that. I always go via the Looe channel out of Poole and the North Channel into Hurst.
The final thing you need to plan for is that you are going to have to go back the next day. I usually stay at least one night in the Solent. The next day I have to get back whatever the weather. You still have to  allow for the Hurst current, but after that there is no problem. It is possible to get into Poole against the ebb if you have to, but you will need more than 2HP. It helps if you know where the back eddies are, Follow a local who seems to be going in a bizarre direction. I have only sailed back once, on a single, three hour reach which left me aching down one side. All other times I have had to motor against a head wind, so make sure you have enough fuel and power.
Its a lovely trip. Yarmouth is an excellent destination, one f my favourites. The harbour is an excellent berth, but very expensive. You get what you pay for. Lymington is nice too, but I like to be on the island if I can.