'Long day out' spec Bayraider?

[maxr]

G'day. Many thanks to the helpful Swallow staff and owners who helped with my idiot and other questions at the Southampton Show. I'm looking for a 20'-ish boat for long day sails and fun racing on the Fal estuary, kept on a swinging mooring. I've established that I only fit into the likes of Shrimper and Norfolk Gypsy cabins with the aid of a tyre lever, and their cockpits are too small. Getting into a BRe cabin with the sprayhood up is a hands and knees job for me, so that's out. . However a couple of 'nice but too slow' boats (Character Boats 'Coastal' and Shrimper 17) do a sort of day cruiser version with room for a Portapotti and small stove under an extended forward dodger. So, does anyone know please if there are any open BayRaiders around with anything like the following spec?

* Extended windowed dodger/sprayhood covering about the forward half of the cockpit, fully enclosable, perhaps with pop-on vinyl blinds for privacy/camping?

* Cockpit cushions under the dodger area for apres lunch snooze, maybe extending under the foredeck (if the thwarts go under there).

* Thwart or athwartships locker about halfway down the cockpit, which I could put a small portable spirit stove on when required, moored up (strapped on temporarily?)

* Porta-potti, stowed securely somewhere (under the foredeck, or in a locker), used in extremis only under the sprayhood.

* Fully battened rig (a la BRe), perhaps with the boom at BRe height, if that's higher than the open BR.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks, Max

[Tony]

Hi, Max r.
Have you spoken to Matt?
Have him build you a custom BR 20 in epoxy-ply. (Lighter, faster and more easily tinkered with than plastic.)
If you REALLY want to fly how about a Storm 23 with a modified cuddy for your particular requirements?
 

[maxr]

Thanks Tony, but I think budget says it will have to be a standard plastic BR, apart from the BRe style rig.

[Jonathan Stuart]

Max,

I think an open BR20 covers almost everything you need as standard. It is also a perfect boat for sailing in the Fal and you will appreciate the extra performance of the BR20 over Shrimpers, etc - my BRe points higher and sails comfortably faster than Shrimpers in all winds (including sailing nicely in light airs when the Shrimpers are stationary).

The BR20's sprayhood is very large, there is a large amount of space under the foredeck and the options list includes an infill to create a sleeping area. There are very large lockers as standard and space for a portapotti and stoves, etc. I believe the standard UK rig for a BR20 is still the gunter but the BRe rig, i.e. fully battened on one-piece carbon mast, is an option for the BR20 and I believe this is the standard rig in other territories, e.g. USA.

There is an option to extend the BR20's sprayhood with a tent and here's a link to another forum topic that provides more info about that:

http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/?page_id=17&URL=http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php?topic=716

If you prefer another design of tent then a sail maker or Swallow Yachts should be able to create something for you.

I hope that helps!

Jonathan

[Graham W]

Max,

I agree with Jonathan that the standard GRP BR20, with a few options and modifications, fits most of what you are looking for if you don't need a solid lid. Below some thoughts on your wish list, in the same order as your posting.

The BR20 sprayhood doesn't quite cover half the cockpit. However, the optional table cum berth extension makes a sheltered full length double berth that extends under the foredeck (photo 1 below) . Stowable self-inflating mattresses (a 6'6" single shown in the photo) make the space comfortable. The optional tent extends the sprayhood space, allows full height seating (unlike the sprayhood alone), has window blinds and can be closed up against the elements (photo 2). A simpler and cheaper arrangement is a boom awning rigged up over the sprayhood (photo 3).

There are several options for cooking. The midships rowing bench can be used as a cooker space, as in this posting from Jonathan http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,1305.msg9392.html#msg9392. Alternatively, you can rig up cooking space on the table (photo 4) or on top of the centreboard (photo 5). There is also an optional spirit stove apparatus for the starboard locker, described here http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,744.msg5215.html#msg5215

I think a Porta Potti is unnecessary for only occasional use. They are large and would be cumbersome to stow on a BR20. Most owners adopt the bucket and chuck it approach. This can be made more, er, convenient with a stowable seat over the bucket (photo 6).

Finally, and as Jonathan mentions, the BR20 can be specified with the USA rig (photo 7), which is similar to the BRe fathead Bermudian.

I think this covers most of what you are looking for, without too many compromises.

[Tony]

Hi, Max.
If you are sure you don't want a hard top (....and they do have SOME disadvantages...) do shell out for a decent cockpit tent.
 I spent a night (in  Vannes, during the Semaine du Golf) next to a couple in one of the first BR 20s who had a spray hood and a tarp. I was cosy in my insulated and well ventilated "crawl-in-and-die" cabin but they were chilled to the bone by morning. It would have made a difference if the tarp could have been closed off at the back but condensation under the tarp would have still made life miserable.

[Graham W]

Tony's right - the boom awning is only really suitable for when you're at anchor (and thus facing into the wind) and the weather is fine.  If you've grounded, are being moved about by currents or are moored against a pontoon, wind and rain can potentially whistle in from astern and make life miserable.

[maxr]

Thanks very much for that info and photos guys, that's all very helpful. I think what I have in mind is probably one hoop more than the standard spray hood, with the hoop fixing moved slightly aft and a zip on closure at the rear of the sprayhood. I take the point about portapotties being cumbersome - for myself, I'd be happy with a bucket, but there may be some question of ablutions fit for Herself, and friends not use to small boat privations

It's probably better if I now explore opinions on jib and engine options in separate topics, existing or new.

Max

[Jonathan Stuart]

Final thought from me on tents. This is what I did on my BRe:

http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,1333.msg9570.html#msg9570

I think it would work on a BR20 too and is quick to erect while keeping much of the tent material out of the way.

[maxr]

Thanks Jonathan - looks great, but I'm after something that covers just half the cockpit, that I can also use under way for keeping disgruntlement at bay when the wind drops and the rain starts, and we have to motor home.

[Tony]

Hi, Max r
Re: Chemical toilets.   Don't have one! Everyone else will use it but guess who has to service it! (and the boat will reek of BluLoo etc.)  There are more civilised ways of dealing with urination - yes, even for the most fastidious of ladies - and for anything more ...er...serious, encourage an SOS policy. Not too difficult on a dayboat.

[maxr]

Ah, thanks for that advice. I was imagining that portaloo makers might have advanced to an odourless non leak magic box with a heated seat that plays soothing music and evaporates then composts the contents to something smelling of roses that you empty once a year. Obviously not, or not this side of Japan anyway. 

However...it occurs to me that somewhere at the back of the wardrobe I have a very large and long towelling construction poncho shaped affair designed for tall chaps to change out of a wetsuit or swim shorts on a beach.  These are available from all surf shops with a sense of humour. Combine that with a B&Q Deluxe bucket and a short plank with most of the splinters removed to place between centreboard case and thwart, and we have a facility to offer relief, prevent offense to public modesty, and confuse onlookers from the St Mawes ferry - with no danger of doing a Robert Maxwell. Not quite up to Graham's handcrafted mahogany masterpiece, but anyone desperate enough to use it should find it a boon to mankind.

[Tony]

Hi, Max.
If you're not totally Pee'ed off with the subject take a look at :-

https://reader.exacteditions.com/issues/9613/page/3

[maxr]

Thanks Tony, but that mag appears to require a subscription to read it.

Graham - the photo of your BR shows the battened Bermudan rig and carbon mast. What's the line running down to the boom from the mast, behind the jib halyard entry - a topping lift? Have you found the Bermudan rig has performance or other advantages over the gunter rig?

[Graham W]

Max,

The Bermudan rig boat isn't mine - I have a gunter rig.  I borrowed that photo from somewhere else. Someone with a BRe can probably answer your questions.