Barton jib furling problem

[Graham W]

The Barton furling drum and top swivel on my self tacking jib appear to have failed again, giving them an average useful life on my boat of less than five years.  The previous lot suffered from bearing failures, in which their usually smooth rotation (when brand new) deteriorated into a graunching reluctance to move.  Unhelpful when you are trying to furl or unfurl the jib.  Now the replacements are exhibiting the same problem, which I ascribe to high working loads on my jib (500Kg is safe, according to Barton) turning the spherical steel bearings into square balls.

I don’t think my jib working load is excessive. I tension the halyard with the jib boom to one side of the foredeck and then move the boom amidships, which stiffens up the shrouds nicely. When I unfurl the jib, I make sure that there is enough tension on the outhaul to lift the back of the jib boom just clear of the deck and sometimes use a topping lift in light winds to change the shape of the sail. I would be very surprised if any of this causes anything near 500Kg of strain on the furlers, even in high winds.

So my choice is to bite the bullet and shell out for yet another new Barton furler set or to try something different.  Any suggestions?  I don’t think the bearings are replaceable. Has anyone got a recommendation for a different brand that has tougher bearings?

[Sea Simon]

My slightly newer boat was fitted with a Selden  furler by the yard. Model is 50S I think?
Looks like they are available for about £150-190?

 This  is not really a  specific recommendation, but the Selden unit has been trouble free, and seems robust.
IMO feels to be a  better quality item than the Barton on my Lugger?

Don't forget, on the BRe with standard jib, the foresail is winched up tight, as it seems that on many boats, the wire jib luff is the main forestay. I changed my jib halyard to Dyneema, as I found the original too stretchy to keep anything like a constant hoist tension.
 My boat has a separate wire forestay too, standard?

[Rock Doctor]

Graham,
had similar problems to you, went the $$$$ Selden route with new furler and top swivel as well. Agree with Sea Simon's comments too.

[Peter Cockerton]

Graham

These people claim their product removes the load from the top spinner and drum bearings and of course provides the functionality of being able to reef the jib. Realise that the cost of the spar would make it an expensive solution to your jib issue but worth a cursory look.

http://www.aeroluffspars.co.uk/Cruiser/Cruisers/Cruisers.html

Quote from Aero Luffspar Blurb

"Spar works more efficiently than any
standard furling unit, where the
loading applied to the foresail halyard
is transmitted through the bearings
of the top swivel and bottom drum"

Peter C

[Graham W]

These people claim their product removes the load from the top spinner and drum bearings and of course provides the functionality of being able to reef the jib. Realise that the cost of the spar would make it an expensive solution to your jib issue but worth a cursory look.

Peter,

I decided a while ago that for convenience when cruising solo, I would abandon my conventional jib and revert to the old self-tacker, which is quite small and not really suitable for reefing.  I can see how the luff spar would reduce loads on the bearings and if I had my dream BC23, I would definitely specify this.

[Graham W]

Simon, Chris,

The Selden 50S looks very high spec, with a price of £600+, for a bog standard self-tacking BayRaider. Probably something quite like Peter’s Aeroluff? Selden have a 20C that looks like it might be more in my price range at about £120 but finding the differences in spec between the various Selden models is not easy.

[Sea Simon]

GW, perhaps I have miss-quoted the 50S model? If so, sorry!
 Will try to find out for you. Definitely a small Selden tho!

Seems much more likely to me to be the 20S that I have, from what you described.

There is no "spar" involved, just a drum and a top swivel. The general arrangement being very similar to the Luggers Barton fit out.

[Graham W]

I found this about the 20S and it also covers the next one up, the 30S https://shop.allspars.co.uk/pdf/2224_furlex-20.pdf.

Like the Barton furler, the working load on the 20S is 500kg, while on the 30S it’s 900kg.

[Sea Simon]

Have found some pics on line, as realised mine is in my mothers loft (88yo, isolating) along with my jib, and all other sails overwintering. No chance to check!

It must be the 20s I have, as the 30s seems to be a new model. Sorry for the confusion!

The 30s looks to be the sort of thing I would specify for a BRe? 900kg load rating, and slightly bigger ball bearings.
 Haven't seen any prices of 30s, appears to be limited stockists?

[Graham W]

Simon,

If you have a separate forestay, the loads on your jib swivels would be less than on my BR20 when I’m in plain vanilla mode.  If I’m using my plank bowsprit with flying jib or code zero, my jib swivel loads would be less.  A 20S ought to be sufficient, since they claim that it “has twin bearing units with 4 mm stainless steel ball bearings. These larger ball bearings run in multi-axis bearing units to reduce friction and wear. A further benefit of the bearing design is that with one bearing in the upper part of the furling drum and one in the lower, the radial torque from the furling line is evenly distributed. This eliminates the problem of the drum twisting, a common cause of friction in more basic designs.”  Their idea of more basic designs probably includes Barton and I think I agree!

A complete 20S is around £120, a 30S around £210.  Allspars sell the 30S in the UK and it’s also possible for Brits to buy it from SVB in Germany.  Several chandleries sell the 20S.

[Graham W]

According to Matt the Yard, they usually fit the Selden 40S on the BRe and BC23 and usually only fit the 95mm Barton to the self-tacking BR20.  He thinks the 20S and 30S are too small for the BRe and BC23, presumably because their conventional jibs (on a bowsprit on the BRe) are much bigger than the BR20’s self tacker.

I found more Selden specifications here https://www.seldenmast.com/files/1503923989/597-130-E.pdf.

The 20S is tiny (drum diameter 70mm vs Barton’s 95mm).  The 30S seems to be the right size, has what sounds like a much better bearing system and has nearly twice the maximum service load of the Barton.  So, swallowing hard at the cost, I’ve ordered that version from SVB.

[Graham W]

The Selden Furlex 30s has arrived and has been installed on the self tacking jib.  A few issues:
* There were no instructions (not even on the internet) and it was not obvious how to get inside the furler to install the furling line.  Once inside, it was even less clear how to attach the furling line to the drum without using a knot, which will cause bunching and potential jamming.  Does anyone with a Furlex 30s or 40s have any suggestions?
* The base clevis pin on the furler was too large to fix to the standard small lacing eye on the end of the wooden jib boom. I have a spare carbon jib boom with a massive u-bolt on the end which solved that problem.  I’ll look at reverting to the wooden boom (on aesthetic grounds) if I find a suitable u-bolt for it in the future.
* Given that the jib luff is a critical link holding up the mast, the flimsy split rings and pins helping to secure the clevis pins at both ends of the furler and swivel will need replacing.

The Selden furler is heavy and feels reassuringly over-engineered, especially compared to its lightweight plastic Barton predecessor.  I’ll dismantle the latter to see if it can be refurbished.  No chance with the Barton top swivel as there seems to be no way of getting inside.  One for the tip, I think.

[Sea Simon]

Just rigged my boat this morning. Confirm mine is a Selden 40s, on a 2016 BRe. Original.

Apologies for earlier confusion.

Hope your new set up does the trick for you, let us know.

[Graham W]

With furlers like the Furlex 30 and 40s, securing the furling line is done inside the drum, unlike on the Barton where the end is a knot on top of the drum.   A knot inside the Furlex drum causes an obstruction, bunching and a possible jam.

To try to avoid this problem, I asked Selden UK for advice.  Their "Technical account manager" sent me a list of worldwide dealers and told me to consult one of those.  I then asked SVB, from whom I bought the furler, what I should do.  They sent me a link to the web brochure, ignoring my question completely.  I wonder if the parent company in Sweden knows how useless such "help" is, in the absence of a manual? I've sent them an email, so they do now.

I think I've solved the problem myself, by doing a sailmaker's whipping on the end of the line, which fattens it enough to jam it securely into the slot in the drum.  The furler itself is excellent, as it should be for that price, and much smoother than the Barton.

[Graham W]

I had a reply from Sweden, enclosing an out of focus photo of a different furler (one that uses an external knot), with the hope that it might help.  It doesn’t.