Storm 15 questions

[Niko]

Hi everybody, I'm Niko from Konstanz, Germany.  We're living (obviously ) right next to the Lake of Konstanz and I'm looking for a small family-friendly boat.

It should be light enough be be launched fully rigged single handed from a floating pier (40cm above water level) and more stable and dry than the 470 skiff my wife and I have been sailing recently.  It should be possible to have 2 adults and a child sleeping in a cockpit tent.

The Storm 15 seem like a good fit.  I've questions some details:

* The website only states the hull weight.  How much is the weight of a completly rigged Storm 15?
* How high is the tip of the mast above the waterline when the main is down?

Besides these questions I'd love to see some more pictures.


Regards, Niko.

[Matt Newland]

Hello Niko,
The Storm 15 might be a bit of a squash under a cockpit tent for two adults and a child. You would have to make some slats or suchlike to bridge the gap between the seats, and you might want to check with your wife/girlfriend that she is as keen on the idea as you are :-)

The boat weighs about 120kg, fully rigged.
The air draft under the main mast (yard lowered) is 4.1m
Hope this helps

Matt

[Niko]

Hello Matt

The Storm 15 might be a bit of a squash under a cockpit tent for two adults and a child. You would have to make some slats or suchlike to bridge the gap between the seats, and you might want to check with your wife/girlfriend that she is as keen on the idea as you are :-)

It's probably only gonna be a single night two or three times a year and the little one is still quite small.  We'd take another tent with us to camp on the shore most of the time.

The boat weighs about 120kg, fully rigged.

That's lighter than I expected! Should be easy to pull the boat onto the floating pier even single handed.

The air draft under the main mast (yard lowered) is 4.1m

Just about perfect.  There's a bridge close to harbour and most of the time of the year it's got more than 4.1m clearance above waterline.  It would be easy to get to the other part of the lake with the S15 without even unstepping the mast.

Thanks for the answers, that helped a lot.


Niko.

[Niko]

I'm striving to reduce the setup time for sailing as much as possible so even using 1 1/2 hours after work would still leave us sailing most of the time, not setting up and and storing the boat longer than actually sailing.  Would lazy jacks help on a S15?  Do lazy jacks even work with the loose luff and a sliding gunter?  Can you leave the main laying in the lazy jacks beneth the cover?

I'd highly appreciate any other ideas to cut down setup time to a minimum.

On the S15 page it says the S15s cockpit is roomy enough for 4-6 people.  Has anybody ever sailed her with 4 adults on board?

I read some people tried the Torqeedo outborders.  Would the Torqeedo Travel fit into the S15s outboard well?

http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/produkte/travel/techn-daten-masse.html

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[Niko]

Thanks Claus, for the immediate reply.

Nice to hear the S15 is such a good load carrier.  I'd not expect any 15ft boat with 4 adults on board to perform much better than a sailing bathing platform.  Having fun with some friends is (sometimes more important than racing-performance anyway.

The S15 doesn't have a tabernacel as far as I know and I don't even have to lower the mast.  I just thought about lazy jacks helping in a lazy 'drop the main, pull over the cover and leave' scenario.

As far as the outboard well is concerned - I just reread the torqeedo thread ( http://rubyurl.com/8kUP ).  Matt: Any news about the "new outboard from Korea, not yet in the shops"?

Niko.

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[Matt Newland]

Niko
Thanks for your comments.
I would not recommend lazy jacks on a boat this size. It really cannot get much easier and quicker to rig. She has an unstayed mast which is really quick to step or strike. Lazy jacks = more string. More string = more tangles.
On a yacht whose full mast is up all the time, then obviously the tangle only needs to be sorted out once a season, and the benefit is obvious with much larger sails. On the Storm 15, I really dont think it is worth it.
If you dont believe me, then buy a Storm 15, and you can try them! If they dont work its no problem to take them off. :-)
Regarding the torqeedo, I think the whole unit is too big to fit in the outboard well of almost any boat that has been designed to take a standard outboard engine, including the Storm 15. For some reason they have made this lovely engine and then stuck a huge mounting bracket on it. I KNOW you Germans are pretty hot at designing things, so am sure they will do better with future models, but if anyone knows any Torqeedo engineers, please put them in touch...

Best wishes,
Matt

[Matt Newland]

I forgot to mention, we are looking at embedding a Flover Electric Outboard (not as powerful as the torqeedo, but plenty for this boat) in the rudder of our Storm 15. I will let you know how it goes, and how it affects sailing performance.
Matt

[Gareth Curtis]

Hi Matt,

How does the "embedded" outboard work, is it attached to the rudder?

I wasn't going to bother with an engine but I was down our local habour last night and it looked a lot more difficult to get out than I had anticipated. (I had planned to stick with just oars and not venture too far!!!)

I'm putting the coamings on this weeks, so hope to get to the rudder pretty soon.

Thanks
Gareth

[Niko]

Guess you`re right about the lazy jacks. As I don`t have to unstep the mast I just thought it would be the most convinient method of storing the main.

What`s the problem with the torqeedo bracket?  Is it the width (150mm)?  Or the distance between the shaft and the bracket?

Niko.

[Niko]

As of embedding an outboard into the rudder: Torqeedo also has a kajak motor that seems to be a candidate for that. Much smaller and even lighter than the other motors they have. http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/produkte/ultralight.html

I like the idea of an electric outboard quite a lot but the main shortcoming is either not much range or really heavy battery. It seems the Torqeedos are pretty lightway for their range. Very expensive, though.

Matt: Are there any pictures of the S15 cockpit with a centerboard? Or CAD images? How long are the seats in the S15?

[Paul Cross]

Hi
Sorry  i've come late to this discussion.

Regards set up time..i recently trailed our S15 up to the the west coast of Scotland. It took me (alone) about 35 mins to get the boat from towing condition to on the slipway, ready for sailing. We keep the mainsail laced onto the gaff and the jib/forestay/clubboom assembly attatched to the the mast...after that, about 15-20 minutes each time we went out..(we stored her on the trailer in Largs Yacht haven)..thats about the time it takes me to rig my Laser for a Sunday race and includes taking the time to make sure evrerything is done properly.

Lazy jacks just wouldn't work for this sail (or ...at any rate...be too complicated a solution)...after many hours of trying different things, what i do is:
Disconnect the mainsheet. (we have a clip on the block at the end of the sprit)
loosen the outhaul line at the end of the sprit (but keep it attacthed with a stopper knot in the cleat).
Pull the sprit from its fixing at the mast.
Invert the sprit so that the mast end is now pointing up and the sprit is parallel to the mast.
Wind/roll the sail onto the sprit until you reach the mast.
Secure to the back of the mast with a couple of bungee sail ties (or rope if you like)
This takes less than 30 seconds with a bit of practise and results in a neat uncluttered cockpit. It can be undone in a similar time even in quite heavy winds...although trying to re-atatch the mainsheet in strong winds can result in some interesting windsurfing type activities!.
This type of furling, however, means that there is no horizontal gaff or boom for your cockpit tent so you would have to look at a self-supporting structure.
It does mean that you can row effectivly without the sail getting in the way. A blessing when you decide not to use an engine.

We have used IONA with an electric motor (sorry cant remember which one) and it worked beautifully....i didnt like the weight of the batteries however, and i got very nervous about not knowing how much power there was left in them. In Scotland, we made the decision to dispense with auxillary power and just use the oars. Actualy, I carried two short paddles as well and, as i ended up with more crew than expected these worked very well.
It is remarkable how the lack of an engine focusses your mind on what you are doing....i planned each trip far more carefully and executed every manouvre with more conncentration. It made me a better sailor.

I think you will be suprised at how fast the S15 is with 4 adults. Max hull speed can be achieved in quite light winds and more crew just means it takes a little longer get there. Iona did a circumnavigation of Great Cumbrea last week with 4 aboard. The 14 mile journey (actual track on the GPS) took 3 hours 45 min in 10ish knot winds. Including a few loops around the channel buoy to play with the Dolphins!

I'll see if i can find some pictures of Iona's cockpit with the centreboard. We have not slept onboard but this is something i want to try next year for a few nights...(pretty sure that my wife does not share the same ambition though)

[Niko]

Hi Paul

Thanks for all the details.  Very interesting insights!

If I understand you right you keep gaff up and the mail lashed to the mast and gaff.  I guess in my case that wouldn`t work as standard storage for the sail as it would get wet when it`s raining.

At the yacht club where I want to have the boat they have a floating dock / pier (see attached image).

So the mast will be kept upright and I`m looking for a possibility to store the main under the boats cover in fast and lazy way with close to no preparation when setting up the main next time.

I thought about some sort of ad hoc sail bag between the sprit boom (attached to the mast) and the foot of the main held up by the jib halyard.  Perhaps one could then just drop the main and lash the packet together with bungee rope.  I`ve no ideo wether that would actually work.

I like your story about circumventing great cumbrea with four adults and how Iona performed.  I`d love to read more about your trip!  The landscape must so beautiful there.

The landscape at the Lake of Konstanz isn`t too bad, but the water is really crowded on good sailing days (at least on weekends).  The lake is about 530km^2 big (same size as the Isle of Man) but we have almost 60.000 registerd vessels.  Most of which are hardly used, but still.

Pictures of the center board would be very nice!  How much is the top of the center board above the level of the seats?

Regards, Niko.

[Paul Cross]

Niko

sorry.....The harbour furl that i described is simply to tidy the sail and clear the cockpit when underway by oar or engine...i posted that as a response to your lazy jack suggestion...i should have taken more time to read through your original post...When the boat is stored, we drop the gaff (with sail attatched) into the boat, take the gaff off the mast, then undo one shackle on the forestay and lift the mast out complete with furled jib and clubboom, it takes no time at all. this then sits under the cover until next time you sail.I can rig the boat in this way whilst it on the trailer but my father who is a little shorter, finds it difficult to reach but most people could do this easily on that floating pontoon....the 20 mins or so preperation time includes steping the mast, hoisting the gaff...attaching rudder and tiller... er...thats about it really dont know why it takes me that long...i probably spend as much time fiddling with the GPS!

The Scotish trip was very nice...the scenery is fantastic and there is a massive amount of cruising in that part of the world. i'd love to do some more extensive voyages around Bute and Arran. We were up there because my son was competing in the Optimist National Champs so i didnt get to do any long cruises..the only problem is the weather, which changes every hour or so...ohh..and the 6 hour drive

I'll take some photos of the cockpit for you, as the boat is in my drive at the moment...the centreboard case is pretty much level with the seats (i think...check tomorrow)...i know in the daggerboard version its quite a bit higher..but you should have no problem making an infill for sleeping with this design, if that is your plan.

Regards
Paul