Advice on fastener and install of ladder on BR20

[globetrot]

Soon I will be receiving delivery of an Osculati 4-step ladder (https://www.osculati.com/en/11627-49.551.04/4-step-ladder-whandle-345-mm), and I am trying to think of the best way to fasten the ladder to the aft deck on the port side. I have attached a picture from another boat with a similar setup, but I am unsure how they fastened the ladder.

As far as I can tell, there is no way to access the hull inside the area where the ladder will be mounted, so using lock nuts seems like it is not a possibility.

My plan so far includes sandwiching some KingStarboard between the deck and the ladder brackets. However, I am stuck on the hardware part. Any advice you can lend is appreciated!

[Llafurio]

For fastening onto inaccessible cavities you can use Fischer "UX R" plugs, as per the other thread https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/?page_id=17&URL=https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php?topic=2679 .
C.

[Graham W]

Louis,

I think that I have the same telescopic ladder as you but have mounted it to a bracket on the rudder - see https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,97.msg2476.html#msg2476.  The bracket is also used to mount my trailer registration plate, putting it in the direct line of sight of tailgaters in a way that the low slung standard mount does not!

[globetrot]

Louis,

I think that I have the same telescopic ladder as you but have mounted it to a bracket on the rudder - see https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,97.msg2476.html#msg2476.  The bracket is also used to mount my trailer registration plate, putting it in the direct line of sight of tailgaters in a way that the low slung standard mount does not!

Hi Graham, thank you for the response. Yes, I have seen your setup. It seems that the ladder would swing from side to side due to it being attached to the rudder (unless you tie it off). Also, does the mizen mast get in the way of climbing back on board?

Regards,
Louis

[Graham W]

Louis,

I have a tiller brake, so swinging about off the end of the rudder when the ladder is in use is not a problem.  The mizzen is usually furled when the ladder is in use, so it doesn't get in the way.  I have non-slip pads stuck to various bits of the port side stern deck, which show the uninitiated which way to tread when boarding.  It all works exceptionally well, although since we stopped trailering to Corfu I have to admit it has seen much less use!  I don't usually install the ladder when sailing in the UK.  If anyone falls overboard, they have to use the notch in the rudder and semi-permanently installed winglets to get back in the boat.

[globetrot]

For those interested in doing what I intend, here is the official response from Swallow Yachts on how to do it properly:

"What you need to do is to cut a hole in the side of the outboard well and put your arm through to adhere plywood backing pads (we treat them with epoxy) to the underside of the aft deck.  Our molders do this for us before the hull and deck are joined so that we don't have to cut a hole in the GRP.  You can then drill through and fit the ladder with through bolts - you can find the right size once you have your ladder and plywood backing, and can calculate the length you will need.  All bolts and fittings need to be 316 grade marine standard stainless steel. You could install a twist hatch in the outboard well rather than leave a hole!"

Parts Required:
Back Pads (100mmX300mmX18mm ply)   Qty 2
3 rung Boarding ladder             Qty 1
white inspection hatch             Qty 1
M6X 55mm CSK                Qty 4

Tools Required:
140mm Hole saw
6mm drill, CSK, 10mm socket, flat head screwdriver

[Llafurio]

Louis,

to fit such a boarding ladder, I would just screw the ladder down on the rear deck using the Fischer nylon plugs, and I am 99.9% sure that would have sufficient hold.: The BR 20 rear deck is really tough. IMHO it will take the boarding ladder without reinforcements underneath the deck.
SwY has good reason to make it extra sure by using an understructure but I know enough about the boats to trust my own judgement.

This whole "getting back on board" thing, I had started that on the Drascombe Forum many years ago. From own experience I had been shocked how difficult it actually is to get back aboard such a seemingly small boat as a Drascombe. There had been casualties of small boat sailors found dead in the water after seemingly having failed to make it back up aboard. We figured out what would -only- work for getting back in, and that was a rigid ladder. The usual rope ladders were not good enough, because they would be pushing horizontally under the hull instead of pushing the mariner vertically up, and out of the water.

Anyway, when it came to the Raiders, first the SeaRaider, we had the same problem, and I had the idea to screw two folding mast steps sideways onto the s/s rudder head casing. Then, for the later BayRaiders, Matt refined that idea to mouldind a step into the rudderblade as standard, and I thought that was brilliant. Because, it didn't require any extra piece of equipment. Getting back in via the rudderblade step is not comfortable, but it is always an option, and it does work. I got Watercraft to publish an article about the problem, and about the SwallowBoats solution.

I fully understand if some folks today rather want a comfortable folding ladder for getting back in rather than using the moulded rudderblade step, but I just wanted to remind that getting back into a BR in an emergency does not require such an extra piece of equipment. And, that SwB had been the first and only small boats yard to introduce a "getting back in" step as standard.

Coming back how to fasten a folding ladder to the BR rear deck, I would try the simpler nylon plug solution first, before cutting an extra inspection hatch into the motor well.

CR

[globetrot]

Ok, I have finished my project and am pretty pleased with how it turned out.

Ultimately, I decided to use stainless steel backing plates in addition to the backing ply board that Swallow had previously installed.

I followed Swallow's guidance and cut a 10cm access hole in the top part of the engine well. All turned out OK, but it quickly could have become a big problem because some hull sections need to remain sealed and are part of the ballast system.

Once cut, it quickly became apparent that no human could bend their arm the way it needed to reach the intended location of the backing plates. So I got into problem-solving mode.

Since I wouldn't be able to hold the backing plates in place or reach with a socket wrench to tighten the lock nuts, I epoxied the lock nuts to the backing plates. This would hold the nuts in place and avoid using a socket wrench. I drilled the holes for the hardware, dropped a nail tied to string through the hole from the top of the deck, and used one of those flexible magnets (used for getting parts out from small spaces) to grab hold of the nail and pull the string through the access hole.

I coated the back of the backing plates with a marine semi-permanent adhesive, fed the nail through the hardware hole in the backing plate, and pulled the plate into position with the string. Once in place, the adhesive did its thing and held the plate in position so I could drop the hardware through the deck and tighten the screw and bolt. It all worked quite beautifully. Now I know the ladder isn't going anywhere and is sturdy.