Anchoring Info Request

[Ron Dunbar]

I'm patiently waiting on the imminent arrival of my BRe, and one of my last descisions is what anchor(s) to go with.
I'd be grateful of anyone's experiencedwith anchoring Bayraiders, including the preferred method of tying on, launch and retreival.
Most of the areas I sail (West Coast sea lochs)  are something between large gravel and rocks, with little sand, and almost no mud.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks
Ron Dunbar

[Julian Swindell]

I use an 8kg Brittany anchor, with about 10m of chain and 25m of rope. It is like a danforth anchor, without the cross bar. It is the largest anchor I could find which would fit into one of the lockers on the foredeck of my Baycruiser 20. I don't think you have lockers on the BRe do you? I tie it to the samson post between the lockers and have anchored to it overnight many times. It has never moved, even in a F6 wind that blew up one scary night. But I have generally anchored on mud and to be honest I think the chain alone would hold in Poole mud.
If you have to store the anchor on deck, I think a full danforth style would probably be better.

[Jonathan Stuart]

I use a Danforth (well, copy of) on my BRe. I think it is 4.5KG and only has about 3-4m of 8mm chain. I have anchored on sand and mud and it hasn't come close to moving and I wouldn't anchor in the sort of conditions that would cause it to drag! I keep it in a bag next to the CB case but my anchor has the cross bar/arms and they only just fit between the CB case and the locker, such that I am paranoid they will damage the boat, so I'm either going to cut them down and/or may get a small anchor that my wife can more easily handle (given that even the 4.5KG is overkill for lunch stops).

The other consideration on the BRe is that you don't want to be going forward to use the anchor. I have a line attached to a forward cleat that come back to the cockpit. That has a snap shackle  on the end and when we're not at anchor that is normally clipped to a rowlock, or similar. When anchoring, the anchor is deployed from the cockpit, let out to the right length and the snap shackle is clipped to a loop in the anchor line. I use a butterfly knot to make the loop. I leave the loops in the line so there is normally one to use, but if there isn't then this is a quick knot to tie. Obviously the anchor warp is kept in the cockpit so you can haul in again, but it is loose enough such that the tension is from the forward cleat and the boat sits at anchor properly.

[Julian Swindell]

Jonathan, having a short, permanently rigged line from a bow strong point to a hook back in the cockpit is a very neat idea and not one I have heard before. I have seen some very complicated systems of long, multiple lines to allow you to drop and retrieve an anchor from the cockpit, but this sounds far simpler. I would try it myself, but I don't have room in my cockpit for an anchor.

[Jonathan Stuart]

Thanks! It works very well and is simple. I "discovered" the butterfly knot to make this approach work and that has also been a very useful knot for putting a loop in the middle of a warp.

[Andy Dingle]

On a related subject but concerning the Bayraider 20.

I would be interested in hearing what other BR owners do to secure the anchor warp to the boat?
In the absence of a samsung post, where is considered a suitable strong point - indeed, even for towing or being towed where would you secure the line?

The usual 'strong' point on a dinghy is around the base of the mast. But I would be very reluctant to secure anything around the base of the mast on a Bayraider, one strong tug could have the mast down!
How about the chain plates with some kind of bridle rigged?
I thought the most obvious strong point would be the winch eye on the bow but that is just about impossible to reach from within the boat when at sea.

I would be grateful for others thoughts on this - especially before I go off to Morbihan where anchoring in a strong tide will it seems be likely (hopefully not the being towed bit!).

Andy

[Colin Lawson]

On my BR20 I simply do as you suggest and secure the warp to the mast.  The loop in the warp rests on the deck so there is negligible turning effect / moment on the mast so I have assumed that there is little chance of a problem. I know the screws are meant to fail if the mast is in danger of collapsing due to rig failure (big tuning effect) to minimise damage to the deck but with the anchor warp pulling at ninety degrees to the mast, the screws would have to be ripped sideways through the glass fibre - which I have assumed is unlikely. 

However if I were being towed by a powerful boat (much bigger forces) I would arrange for more points of attachment to share the load. (I'm not sure where though - might not be very pretty - but hopefully will not have to be towed)

Colin      BR20 'Spray'

[Matthew P]

After a lot of research I use a FX7 Fortress http://www.force4.co.uk/3774/Fortress-Anchor-FX7---1-8kg---Boats--5-8m.html, specified for 5-8M boats, weighs 1.8Kg, costs (in sale) £120. The manufacturer claims (of course) superior holding power in most conditions which seems to be backed by various magazine tests.  So far it has not failed me although I have not put it severely to the test in all types of ground.  It is relatively light and lies flat in the boat locker.  Cons are that is it is expensive, could nip fingers and I believe it is possible for a pebble to get stuck in the hinge preventing from the flukes flopping into holding mode. I understand holding power is much enhanced by a good length of chain (2 meters minimum, kept in a bucket with the warp) which rather negates the weight benefit argument. Has anyone experience of these?

I hesitated to attach the anchor warp to the base of my BR20 mast – might be OK for dinghy s where the mast goes through partners to the keel but I don’t trust the BR tabernacle screws which doing their job normally have little side load on them.  I don’t have any bright ideas for securing the anchor line except I fitted a U bolt to the front of the base of the center-case housing with big washers and a large ½ inch ply pad inside to spread the load.

Matthew P
BR20

[Knowlton]

In reply to Matthew's request for info on the Fortress anchor I can say that I have used it for several years on my 8m 1600kg sloop & intend to keep it to use on the BR20 that I have ordered. One does need to heed the manufacturer's instruction to make the necessary adjustment (by moving the bolt that secures the flukes to the shank to the alternative position) when anchoring in soft mud. I was too lazy to do this on one occasion in the river Dart, and awoke in the morning to find a surprising change of scenery. The only other time the Fortress dragged was when one of the flukes had impaled a discarded kettle on the river bed (I shall resist the temptation to make any puns on the word fluke).
I think the low weight of the Fortress is a real boon & the fact that one should use at least a few meters of chain with it applies to any anchor. Without the catenary of the chain the angle of the ground tackle will unfairly stress any anchor's holding power.
   For lunch stops I am a fan of the Cooper anchor, made in Australia, and available in the UK, tho' not, I think, well known here (www.cooperanchors.com.au). It weighs only 1kg and is made of plastic with a lead-weighted tip, and so is woodwork-friendly. If anyone is interested I will try to work out how to upload a photo.
                                                                                   Paul

[Michael Rogers]

Hi Paul

Very intrigued by the Cooper anchor. I need some dimensions, and will try to find them on their website.

Any obvious reason why it's not well known in UK? You'd think some of the yachting mags would have tested it. Has anyone else seen/tried one? I must say the sea bottom depicted in the website pics might be described as 'ideal' for any anchor!

Michael

[Rob Johnstone]

I use a Fortress FX 7 on Vagabond (BC23) with 5m of chain followed by 15m of warp. Having been used to charging around on chartered 35 footers, I thought the anchor looked scarily small; so far though, it has performed well, although it's only been deployed in mud, gravel and sand conditions. I'm not sure how it will perform on a rocky sea bed so I'm adding another 10m of chain this season as I head towards the W Coast of Scotland.

[Knowlton]

Hi Michael
Thank you for your interest in the Cooper anchor.  I have not used it much and I have not seen any magazine reviews but it appeals to me, especially in that, being made of nylon (not plastic as I previously said) it lacks metal corners likely to ding one's brightwork. I first came across it on a Hobie sailing kayak forum, most of the contributors to which are from Australia and the USA. They rated it highly. I believe it costs about £32.50 (?postage)
I should point out that my previous reference to the Fortress anchor was to the FX11, not the FX7. If there is not stowage space for the FX11 on the BC20 that I have ordered, then I shall be getting an FX7, with the Cooper for lunch stops only.

Paul

[Michael Rogers]

(This has kind of morphed into a 'Technical' discussion, but I suppose that doesn't matter?!)

Just to let folks know that I have ordered a Cooper anchor (the 1 kg version), and will report back in due course.

Before assessing its proficiency in doing what an anchor is there for, I have the issue of whether it fits into my boat. The Trouper 12 has a cunning anchor stowage right up in the bows, complete with hardwood coaming. I think/hope the Cooper anchor will fit in snugly, in which case that would be brilliant - especially if it works well as an anchor (!). But it might not fit, which would be a p**sser. After much measuring and teeth sucking - both the anchor and the space for it are complex shapes - I have decided the only way to find out is to get one and try. I MAY find myself with an anchor I can't use. Hmm.

The default position is a 2.5 kg folding grapnel. It does fit (and is absurdly cheap), but is a pretty inefficient piece of kit. It would be nice to have an anchor in which one has confidence that it will HOLD.
Mr Cooper and sons (it seems to be a 3-man family team) assure us that their's will. Watch this space.

Michael (Trouper 12 Cavatina)

[Colin Morley]

I have anchored my BR20 several times in the mud of Chichester Harbour. I initially used a small grapple type of anchor. However, it dragged very easily and was frankly dangerous. I then got a Lewmar 5 kg anchor with attached chain and warp. I keep this all in a plastic weed collecting bucket usually used in the garden. As this is flexible it can be put into a side locker or pushed under the front of the boat. When I want to use it I put the bucket on the side bench, stand up and drop the anchor over the side, shortening the warp as needed. This works well and when retrieved all the anchor, chain, warp, weeds and mud go straight into the bucket.

If I am anchoring casually I tie the warp to the painter prethreaded through one of the fairleads. Once was are anchored, at leisure we can pull the anchor warp through the fairlead and attach it at the bow.

This has worked well and was much easier than I expected.

[Michael Rogers]

(In the interest of something-or-other, I want to apologise for the greengrocer's apostrophe in my previous post. Lamentable. Michael)