The jib blew out and that was before we started!

[Colin Morley]

What a day. My son and I had dreamed and planned to have an adventure sail in my BR 20, this weekend as our first sail of the season. As we watched the weather forecast we kept convincing ourselves that the wind would drop and weather improve. So with naïvety, we recruited an experienced sailing friend and set off from Hamble point. With a brand new 4HP 4 stroke Yamaha, which we had never used, we thought we better make sure it started before we were on the water. To our frustration it did not start! After lots of huffing and pulling we realised we had not turned on the fuel tap! Then it started immediately.
We launched easily, set off under motor into heavy confused seas and high winds. As we unfurled the self tacking jib, it shredded from luff to leach. We thought our day's sailing was over because we needed the jib to tension the forestay. However, we made a simply system of pulling the inboard end of the jib boom well off the deck with a rope around the mast by the main sheet cleat. Then with the mizzen set and the main reefed fully we set off out into Southampton water, towards the Solent. The wind was building, swell breaking and the spray flying. On a broad reach we sailed to Portsmouth. The average wind speed was over 30 kn gusting up to 48kn. On the swell we were surfing up to 13 kn over the ground and against the tide.

We had an exciting (terrifying), soaking day. We were foolhardy to go out in such weather and especially after the jib had shredded. What was most impressive was the way the BR20 performed. It was very stable and at no time did we feel in any danger. What a wonderful boat.

By the way does any one have a self tacking jib, in good condition,they would be happy to sell me

[Peter Cockerton]

Colin

It sounds like you had a very wet but memorable outing which I’m sure you will regale the story over and over again. Be interesting to know why your jib failed in such a dramatic way any ideas. As posted before myself and Andy D have taken my boat out in some strong blows and to date ”touch wood” the sails are still intact. I did have to get the mizzen patched last year when the mizzen decided to blow through 180 deg (sheet slipped through the cleat) just as I was gybing and the main and mizzen locked horns.  The mizzen sheets are now routed differently and it’s never happened since (mod in library under Bayraider  Sail and Rigging Modifications.
Your comment on “What a wonderful boat the Bayraider is” I fully endorse every time I sail her.
Now to my mod which caused a problem
I start by saying I had no problems with the tabernacle screws fixing it to the foredeck coming loose after sailing in strong wind conditions as some owners have reported. It started with a conversation with my son who is a keen carpenter and I think he wanted to put “his mark” on my boat; the conversation was about some owners putting a wood plinth under the tabernacle to provide a stronger fixing point. He thought an oak plinth under the tabernacle would set the white foredeck off a treat and making it the same shape as the existing raised plinth with a nice chamfer would be just the job. I went along with the idea for cosmetic and partially preventative reasons on possible fixing screws pulling out.
The plinth was made and installed; I secured it with 6 screws from under the foredeck and sealed/adhered with tiger seal (excellent stuff).  I took the opportunity to bring forward the tabernacle by 10 mm also to stop the spray hood catching the sharp edge of the tabernacle.  The new position is still above the bulkhead beam. I used the original screws for the tabernacle fixing which screwed into the 10 mm oak plinth, through the foredeck and then partially into the wood sandwiched in the foredeck.  Using my bottle screws  on the stays I slackened them off prior to raising the mast to allow for the increase in mast height, after raising the mast for the sail at Rutland last week I re-tightened them until the stays were quite taught.
The following is a lesson of “if it’s not broke don’t fix it”, following the sail of 6 hrs. on Rutland in force 4 gusting force 5 and observations on significant mast bend I inspected the tabernacle and fixings. The 6 fixing screws which secure the tabernacle to the plinth were all loose; the four screws fixing the hinging brackets for the mast on the tabernacle were all loose. Yet to come to any conclusion as to what is wrong but strong suspicion on the stays being over taught and insufficient bite on the tabernacle retaining screws into the oak and partial wood under the original foredeck plinth.
I could easily have had a mast failure, and all my own fault.

Peter Cockerton

[Graham W]

Colin,

After fighting sheet tangles while tacking solo with my conventional jib at the Rutland and Ullswater rallies, I'm now keeping my self tacker for crewless and windy special occasions!

Your jib was made by Dolphin?

Gusts of 48 knots (F10) and 13 knots of SOG must be new records for a BayRaider?

[Colin Morley]

Thank you Graham. I can see advantages of "proper jibs" but I like my self taking jib because most of the time I am sailing alone or with my wife who prefers to do very little. It is certainly not such a handful in heavy weather.

My jib was made by Dolphin but I cant blame them.

Thank you Peter. This jib got torn a little last summer when i was trailing it home - about 60 miles without a cover. Although I could not see it while driving the jib had unravelled a bit with the wind of driving and obviously been flogging badly for about an hour at 60 mph. The tear was in from the leach for about 20 cm and had been repaired with sail repair tape. This new tear was in a different place - so the sail repair tape held well. It was also in from the leach but extended almost to the luff. I suspect that the sail had been damaged in the previous episode more than I recognised but it might also be ultravoilet damage from the sun when the boat is left afloat with the mast raised. When I get a new sail I will make sure it has a sacrificial strip down the luff.

Thank you for your reflections on your tabernacle adjustments. I would not be brave or skilled enough to do that. I will check the tabernacle screws closely before I take her out again although there is no obvious damage. Interesting your comment about the shrouds being too tight. I have asked before about mask rake and shroud tension and I dont get any useful advice. Perhaps this is something that should be both calculated and researched.

Lastly, I have watched and read avivdly about the raids and meetings. I would love to be part of it, meet you all, and see the modifications you have made to your boats. Unfortunately, at the time of each meeting I am either working, or on holiday or have family commitments. Next year, I have promised myself I will stop working (I will be 72) and just spend my time playing. I looking forward to putting faces to the contributors to the forum.

[Peter Taylor]

Colin,

After fighting sheet tangles while tacking solo with my conventional jib at the Rutland and Ullswater rallies, I'm now keeping my self tacker for crewless and windy special occasions!

I replaced the jib sheets on my BC20 with 8mm Swiftcord made by Maffioli which apparently is a polyester/dyneema mix. It's relatively expensive but I've used it before on dinghies and works a treat. If the jib has been flogging and the sheets are in a tangle, a pull on one off them untangles everything like magic. A great help for single handed sailing. However those with a BC23 might want something in a larger diameter than you can get in Swiftcord. LDC Sailboats seem to be the cheapest source; according to the guys there they use more Maffioli rope than anyone in the UK except Oyster Yachts - and the latter tend to go for rather larger diameters!

[Graham W]

Peter,

My sheets are something fairly similar, bought from Holland and made (I think) in Portugal.  The problem tangles were mainly not with each other (as you say, one pull and they untangle) but around the cleats on the front of the mast.  The only way to sort that out is to go forward with the tiller lock on - or have an attentive crewmate.  Cleat boots and no lapses in attention when tacking help to prevent the problem but only if you can find the boots and remember to put them on.

[Colin Lawson]

I have asked before about mask rake and shroud tension and I dont get any useful advice. Perhaps this is something that should be both calculated and researched.

I too have wondered about mast rake on the BR20.  I have had mine for two years and have not altered the shrouds or mast rake from that of the previous owner without really knowing whether or not the previous owner had set up the mast rake correctly.  Can anyone help with this??

Colin  BR20 Spray

[Colin Morley]

Hi Colin, Firstly there does not appear to be an official mast rake. These are the principles I have used.
1. Have the bottom of the mast flat on the deck when it is under load from the jib.
2. I get a carpenter's square and put that against the front of the mast and on the flat part of the deck just in front of it. I have found that shows the mast leaning forwards a little. Tighten the shrouds until the mast is at least at right angles to that part of the deck and preferable leaning a little backwards
3. Make sure that the jib boom comes quite well off the deck, when the mast is up.
4. From the side it should look roughly parallel to the mizzen.
5. If the mast is too far back the outer end of the boom will be too low.
6. With a long tape measure make sure the shroud lengths are equal.
7. With the jib/ forestay tensioned the shrouds should feel tight, but i have not measure how tight.

If any one else has better I ideas please let us know.

[Graham W]

For Colin's no. 6 above, measure from the bottom of the lower eye in the shroud to the deck on both sides - not all shroud chainplates have been attached to the boat at the same height. Mine certainly haven't.

For no. 7, this is reckoned to be the best shroud tension gauge http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Loos-Co-Type-A-91M-Rig-Tension-Gauge-2-5mm-3mm-and-4mm-wire-/251356517059?_trksid=p2054897.l5658

[Colin Lawson]

Colin and Graham, thanks for the advice. I am off to the Helford river, Cornwall, this weekend and will experiment with your ideas and report back.

Colin BR20 Spray

[Graham W]

Has anyone seen a BR20 manual subsequent to this one from 2010?  http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/?page_id=251

It would be helpful if things like mast rake were dealt with in there.  Thank goodness for the forum!

I'll try to remember to bring my tension gauge with me to Sail Caledonia if anyone wants to do a bit of experimenting up there.

[Peter Cockerton]

Hi Colin, Firstly there does not appear to be an official mast rake. These are the principles I have used.
1. Have the bottom of the mast flat on the deck when it is under load from the jib.
2. I get a carpenter's square and put that against the front of the mast and on the flat part of the deck just in front of it. I have found that shows the mast leaning forwards a little. Tighten the shrouds until the mast is at least at right angles to that part of the deck and preferable leaning a little backwards
3. Make sure that the jib boom comes quite well off the deck, when the mast is up.
4. From the side it should look roughly parallel to the mizzen.
5. If the mast is too far back the outer end of the boom will be too low.
6. With a long tape measure make sure the shroud lengths are equal.
7. With the jib/ forestay tensioned the shrouds should feel tight, but i have not measure how tight.

If any one else has better I ideas please let us know.

Colin

The points you have raised all seem very valid to me on setting up the mast and stays, with my recent problem on tabernacle screws coming loose i do now put that firmly down to stay tension and the mast with far too much backwards rake.

I have noticed before that after initial mast raising and a short sail the jib luff became slack and a re-tighten of the halyard resulted in the mast moving further forward and the luff tightening up. I put this down to the mast base rubbing harshly on the foredeck/oak plinth and following mast movement the mast being freed up to go vertical. In thinking this through does it make sense that as the mast foot is cut square and the end result we are aiming for is for the mast foot to sit on the foredeck flat so the downward forces are transferred into the foredeck and bulkhead at some point during the raising arc the rear edge of the mast foot which is at an angle at some point to the foredeck will need to lift the mast for a brief period before settling down flat when the mast if fully raised. If the stays are too tight the angled mast will create forces on the tabernacle screws trying to lift the tabernacle off the foredeck. With some slack on the stays the swivel bolt in its elongated hole will allow the mast to rise slightly to accommodate this.
So getting the stay tension just right to allow for above but be tight enough when the mast is vertical is a close call. Or maybe the rear edge of the mast base should be cut of at an angle to help this matter.

Peter Cockerton

[Matthew P]

Hi Colin and Peter
I too have had continuing problems with tabernacle screw loosening, thank you for your comments and advice.  Since tightening my stays a few weeks ago I have not had any further screw movement despite blustery conditions at Ullswater.

However, I am sure that mast movement is eventually inevitable and stronger/longer screws are not the answer - they simply cannot be strong enough.  I think the mast has to be able to move; it is the stays' job to keep it upright-ish and the main purpose of the tabernacle is to stop the mast-foot "skidding" sideways off the deck.

Any frictional forces between the base of mast and the deck get transmitted directly to the screws  via the tabernacle flange.  It occurred to me that if a stainless steel plate was welded to the bottom of the tabernacle then at least the forces produced by mast foot friction would be contained within the tabernacle and not transmitted to the screws.  And I noticed last weekend that a one-year old Bayraider Expedition  did indeed have a plate built into the bottom of the tabernacle for the mast foot to bear on. 

Do you think a plate welded to the bottom of the tabernacle would help - or are there knock-on effects I have not foreseen?   

Matthew
Gladys BR20 GRP No 23

[Peter Cockerton]

Having recently had my tabernacle off (talking about the boat here) when i had to mend a split in the bottom of the mast resulting in glass tape and epoxy wrap several inches up my mast (my fault by the way) the original swivel clamps for the tabernacle pin had to be put back on. The original fixing holes had been covered so to work out where to fit  i took the tabernacle off the foredeck, put the swivels and pin back on the tabernacle, offered it up to the end of the mast and marked the holes. This had to be done by eye so the bottom of the mast was level with the tabernacle uprights. If a base had been on the tabernacle i could simply push the tabernacle to the base and job done. So this will certainly make it easier for the yard to get the tabernacle in the right place on original fit. The base will also prevent the foredeck gelcoat being rubbed. When i fitted the oak plinth i put a small piece of stainless sheet where the mast base sits. As i said before the screws never came undone before my mod and over tightening of the stays, with the stays slack enough for the mast to be raised, the mast free to rise slightly when the leading edge of the mast touches the foredeck and the stays tight enough to take the windward load i don't think the screws will come loose. As you said its sideways movement they are preventing.

Just my views

Peter

[Colin Morley]

I think all these ideas, fixes, adjustments and alterations are a good idea.

However, I wonder whether Matt the guru designer might like to shed some light and data on this problem.

Matt when you designed the boat what were your plans for mast rake, shroud tension, mast foot position?