Swallow Yachts Forum > Sailing and Events
Events - READ THIS FIRST
Matthew P:
At the expense of tact and diplomacy (for which I'm not known anyway) I would like to state my opinion as clearly as possible. The objective of events for me is to have fun in convivial company without undue risks to health, pocket or the wider community. However, organising an event takes time and effort by the organiser. I completely support the principle that event organisers are as protected from legal liability as possible for safety, property, environmental, financial and legal risks.
In my case with regard to taking responsibility for safety etc. of participants:
- I'm not trained, qualified or insured to advise other people on risks for their sailing activities
- I do not know participant’s capabilities
- I do not know how good their equipment is for the conditions
- I am unwilling to look after other people’s money
- I do not organise events for my own or other peoples’ financial or material reward
As far as I am concerned as an event organiser I am willing to:
- Propose an event venue and date
- Negotiate with a host clubs, campsites, restaurants etc. for rates and co-ordinate attendance.
- Suggest a simple course for a cruise or race BUT participants must assess capability in the conditions at the time, of themselves crew and equipment to participate.
If participants are not willing to be responsible for their own safety and liabilities then I am not willing to organise an event for them.
Of course, if I see someone at risk I will do what I reasonably can to help them. If I am aware of an exceptional hazard then I will attempt to inform them. But I will not be held responsible for their safety or risk to property, legal liability, finances etc.
BTW, I am open to other peoples' qualified advice on legal, insurance and other aspect on any of these points.
Also, without implying you should be responsible, I thank you Jonathan for taking the trouble to consider legal aspects in your already time-consuming work administering the forum website.
Matthew
BR20 Gladys
Graham W:
If we have to have a commodore, he (or she) should be furnished with a uniform and tattoo like this.
Jonathan Stuart:
It sounds as if we are all very strongly of the same opinion, i.e. that while we will all try to look out for each other attendees are responsible for their own actions and, in particular, an event's organiser doesn't bear any greater or different liability than any other attendee. As such this conversation reinforces the spirit with which these events are organised.
Hopefully that is reflected in the Terms and in the post at the start of this thread. If anyone thinks that isn't the case then please let me know.
EDWIN DAVIES:
My final comment. Probably.
Let us not kill off a helpful suggestion by exaggerating what is being proposed. I seem to remember Claus doing that and throwing all his toys out of the pram and the baby out with the bath water at the same time. I for one really miss his contributions. No one is suggesting that the organiser of an event assumes all responsibility for it.
I have been involved in many car events, including Wings and Wheels events. Two of the public road events were marred by serious accidents. Though our participants were not to blame questions were asked of the organiser. Had all REASONABLE steps been taken to ensure the safety of the event. A document such as Read This First goes a long way towards answering that question as it reinforces individual responsibility. I would go so far as to suggest that the administrator inserts it at the front of any post for an event.
I presume one of the aims of holding any event is to encourage newcomers, likely to be inexperienced like me, to enjoy their sailing and learn from other more experienced sailors. To limit events to experienced, skilled and known sailors would be a shame.
Below are extracts I found pertinent from the THE LEGAL ASPECTS OF RACE, TRAINING AND EVENT MANAGEMENT by the RYA.
The report of the Water Sports Safety Working Party published by the Government
in 1993 recognised that the vast majority of participants view their activity as
safe, and that most take what they consider to be reasonable safety precautions
appropriate to the level of risk associated with their particular activity.
The report also emphasised that the primary responsibility for safety in
boating lies with the individual participant, and that personal competence,
developed through training and experience in a range of conditions, is
the most important single factor in the achievement of adequate safety
standards.
SECTION 3: Cruising Events and Crew Registers states as follows:
Rallies
Where a club or other association organises a rally by simply issuing a series of meeting places with dates and times, it is unlikely that any legal liability would be incurred by the organiser if an accident occurs either while a boat is on passage to or from a meeting place, or is at the event itself. Where on-the-water activities are organised at the event, it would be appropriate to include a suitable paragraph in the club rules and in the event paperwork.
Cruising in Company and Raids are in a different category and do carry more responsibility. The information can be found at:
http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/legal/Web%20Documents/Legal%20Leaflets/Clubs/Health%20and%20Safety/RYA%20RACE%20TRAINING%20AND%20EVENT%20MANAGEMENT%20-%20LEGAL%20ASPECTS.pdf
Though we are not affiliated to the RYA it is the body most likely to be quoted in any boating inquiry. In my case it was the Motor Sports association.
Out in the real world nothing has changed, responsibilities real and assumed are just as they were before we started this discussion.
david:
Hi, in the groups I sail with out here, it seems that they always make the statement: "While we may sail with company, we always sail alone and each captain is responsible for their boat and any crew". (Not sure if the words are exact. But you get the point).
David.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version