BR20 questions regarding versatility of gunter/gaff rig

[globetrot]

Hello Gents,

I am new to the forum, however, I've been reading a lot and dreaming about finally owning my boat for some time. For my purposes, I think BR20 will handle all of my needs, and more perfectly... I have also considered Drascombe Luggers, Norseboats, and Cornish Crabbers. All have their merits, but for one reason or another, they have eliminated themselves from my list.

I'm a 34 y/o guy living in Copenhagen, Denmark, and am seriously contemplating purchasing a BR20 with a gunter rig. In addition to a lot of protected and open water, Copenhagen has several canals with low bridges, and I am wondering:

1) Is it relatively simple to de-rig so you can pass under low bridges OR is it practical to de-rig entirely so the BR20 can be used occasionally a canal cruiser. Of course, my primary purpose is to sail, but it would be nice if I could take my wife out for a cruise or picnic through the canals without having to maneuver around rigging. Does anyone have pictures of the BR20 in the water without rigging or with the rigging deconstructed while underway?

2) I have never sailed with a gunter rig before, so I am wondering how tidy the cockpit can be when dropping the main. Correct me if I am wrong, but fancy kit like a stack pack with lazy jacks is designed for use with a Bermudan rig. Also, stack packs can often look a bit unsitely. I saw a post from 2009 (Bayraider Mainsail Handling) discussing this, but the debate does not seem to be settled. Any intel you can provide on the tidiness of the cockpit when dousing the gunter-rigged main is much appreciated. Obviously, all sail chaos can be tamed with sail ties, however, my concern is keeping the cockpit clear when having guests and the wife on board. Also it would make sailing single-handed much easier.

Apologies ahead of time if these questions are addressed directly elsewhere in the forum.

Thank you in advance. Pictures are much appreciated.

[Matthew P]

Hello Louis             

"Gladys" is a BR20 with gunter rig and has proved to be very versatile and a lot of fun.

Apart from participating successfully in many raids (sail-and-row races) she has been an enjoyable family boat, including river trips with the rig removed. She has also completed some extended coastal camping-cruising trips.

Attached is a picture of Gladys on a camping cruising trip, passing under a bridge you might recognise  with her rig lowered.  We raised and lowered the rig at anchor.

Also attached is a picture with her sails furled and yard sail-tied to the mizzen mast which quickly makes a secure ridge pole for a tent and keeps everything tidy.  Note the "easy-jacks" from the masthead to the end of the boom that efficiently guides the main and yard down onto the boom.  On Gladys the easy-jack is a 6mm (black) line secured to the mast head, down to the end of the boom back to a block at the masthead and then down to a cleat at the mast foot. 

I hope this answers some of your queries.

Matthew
BR20 Gladys 

[Graham W]

More photos along the same lines.  Hectares of space, as long as you keep the boom out of the cockpit in the way that Matthew describes.

[Graham W]

By the way, if you are going to motor with the mast down, you need some sort of bracket at the stern like the attached, to hold the end of the mast up a bit and stop it from interfering with the tiller.  You can see it in action in the last photo in my previous post.

If you can avoid tangles, the mast is fairly easy to get up and down single-handed.

[globetrot]

Wow! great info Graham W and Matthew P. Thank you especially for the photos. This really helps.

I assume it would also be possible to take the rigging off entirely if I wanted to use the boat strictly to motor around for a day. Don't get me wrong, I plan on sailing almost all of the time. But it would be nice to use the boat as a picnic boat and be able to pass under some low bridges from time to time.

[Graham W]

Louis,

Yes, it’s easy to remove the mast from its tabernacle and undo the standing rigging so that you can leave the whole thing behind.  The downside to this is the potential for tangles when you come to put it all back together again, particularly if you have refinements like topping lifts installed.   Just ask anyone who is rigging their boat for the first time of the season!  I try to avoid tangles by strapping the rigging to the mast with sail ties in several places along its length.

[globetrot]

I realize that the title of this post is regarding the gunter/gaff ring, however, after a long back and forth with Matt at Swallow Yachts, I have been convinced to go the way of a fully battened, carbon fiber one piece mast & mizzen... so, thank you so much for your contributions . Also, this apparently is what is standard on new BR's. This changes has happened vey recently.


If you have any other comments regarding this decision, I'm all ears...

[Graham W]

Well done.  What is the standard BR20 jib arrangement these days?  Self tacking or Mk2 with a bowsprit, as on the BRe?

[globetrot]

Well done.  What is the standard BR20 jib arrangement these days?  Self tacking or Mk2 with a bowsprit, as on the BRe?

The standard setup is a jib set on a balanced club boom with a roller furler. I will be opting for the larger jib on fixed bowsprit with a roller furler.

[Peter Taylor]

If going under bridges is a concern and you don't want to leave the mast behind you want the sort of rig Matt provided on my BC20. I have to lower both masts on the water each time I go out sailing to pass under a low bridge and I can do it all while under way motoring down the river. On the BC20 the mast and mizzen are bermudan rigged and carbon fibre. See http://seatern.uk/2014/06/18th-june-raising-the-mast/ for a video ...I've got better at doing it since then! ...and I think Matt has devised a better way of attaching the boom and sail pack to the mast - the one on Seatern was a prototype. A vital modification is the extra set of shrouds that stay taught while the mast is being raised or lowered. 

Peter

[Peter Cockerton]

Peter

I did enquire with Matt about the addition of the lower shrouds on a BR20 he didn’t think it was possible as the BR20 has nowhere to mount the “pylon type brackets” you have on your BC20 cabin roof.

Peter C

[Peter Cockerton]

Well done.  What is the standard BR20 jib arrangement these days?  Self tacking or Mk2 with a bowsprit, as on the BRe?

The standard setup is a jib set on a balanced club boom with a roller furler. I will be opting for the larger jib on fixed bowsprit with a roller furler.

Louis

It was great to talk to you the other day on the phone and I see you are taking some of the options I specified on my new BR20. Think about the CF boom as well it is really well designed for ease of reefing and incorporates a Cunningham and boom strut. Matt is never keen on providing topping lifts on the reasoning of another bit of string to tangle with the battens on  the main but get the yard to fit a cheek block on the mast so you can fit one at a later date if you so wish.

You may want to consider ordering a boom bag or stack pack as it’s a big sail to handle when dropped.
Peter C

[Graham W]

Peter,

Have you published any photos yet of your new boat under sail?  I don’t remember seeing any.  A garden sailing photo would be good - in some ways it makes it easier to see how things are set up.

One of the big advantages of the Bermudan rig is the speed of mainsail reefing.  I think that if I was going down that route with a new BR20, not that that’s likely, I’d do what you have done and splash the cash on Aeroluff-style jib reefing too.

[Peter Cockerton]

Graham

Will get some photo's taken next week when hopefully the weather improves again, if you would like any specific details let me know.

Peter C

[Graham W]

Peter,

I look forward to it.  I’m particularly interested in what happens at the pointy end of the boat in terms of bowsprit, furling, management of sheets etc.